Leeds Bradford: Infrastructure & Construction Updates

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Incorrect nicholas, at the time it happened the apron was chock a block. There was 1 free stand, possibly 2 on the main apron. But you completely miss the important point.

AIRPORTS DON'T RULE ANYMORE - AIRLINES DO

The customer is always right and when Ryanair (one of the biggest movers of people in the world) is the customer you better get things right for them or they'll be off and we become Teesside! What they require to be successful, you provide. They give the airport the passengers and the airport is successful. Everyone's happy.

This is exactly my point so cheers for helping me. The management need to act ASAP to endeavour to bring the terminal and the apron and everything connected up to a suitable standard for growth. There are passengers waiting to use the airport in West Yorks. and there are many airlines who want to make money here.
 
LUFC Pete, you are right about much of what you say, but you really are looking at things in very simplistic way. Yes, we would all have loved Bridgepoint to have spent the money straight away, but it was only just before last summer that they complied with the requirements of the planning consent, so they were not in a position to do anything until that time. They couldn't do anything during last summer either, as it is the wrong time to be knocking an airport about, which I am sure you will agree, so it had to be last winter.

However, you seem to be forgetting something that I have posted before. All that had happened when the airport submitted plans to the council was that they had a building design that needed planning approval. Nothing more than that. Nobody spends a small fortune on the real nitty gritty design issues until they know that they are going to be able to proceed, and at LBA that was when the council agreed that they had cleared the infrastructure requirements that they had set. Only then would they start the laborious planning of ground drainage, sewarage (both of which require submission to the Environment Agency for approval), internal Mechanical and Electrical design, including the Air Conditioning system and all sort of other issues, which generally have to be amended and re-submitted several times before they are finally signed off.

Then, and only then, can the scheme go out to tender, and that has now been done, ready for a start in the autumn. Only when you have your tender price is the final cost likely to be known and that cost has to be submitted to the Board for approval. Incidentally, despite your scepticism, Bridgepoint have loads of other interests. Look at their web site and see how many businesses they own!

Even when you have a contractor on board, there is then the issue of making sure that the works are planned in such a way that there will be minimal disruption to the airport, enabling it to continue operating despite the huge upheaval the works will cause. The contractors will have had a stab at it, but 9 times out of 10, they, the architects, and the airport, will need a number of detailed meetings, to work out how best to do things and then the timescale for the works can be affected - something that won't be acceptable if it takes the works beyond the start of the summer 2012 season.

Pete - I have been managing projects as my job for 18 years, so I am not just making excuses for Bridgepoint. Think back to how long it took for Terminal 5 to be built at Heathrow - years. The same now with Terminal 2. Different scale I grant you, but actually all the same issues and problems need addressing.

Don't forget either that throughout this time when nothing appeared to be happening, Bridgepoint were funding the works to the car parks (both expansion and re-surfacing), undertaking work on the airfield such as a new fuel farm area, and paying for some highway alterations on the roads leading to the vicinity of the airport. It is not as though they were sitting there not spending anything!

As a project manager, I can fully understand why they are only now getting to the point where they are ready to go. There was no point in rushing things last summer - had they done so the project could have been a disaster. There was also less need to take risks as the passenger figures were not going up and on many routes were going down. No investment company worth its salt was going to throw money at something so important without ensuring that they got the scheme right and the timing right too. The Council did that sort of thing and that is why we have an airport that is made up of various bits, pieces and add ons.

As I have said before, the airport themselves recently acknowledged that now is the time if they want to attract more business to LBA. They have been out to tender and they have announced that subject to Board approval they will start this Autumn. I am therefore somewhat puzzled as to why you seem to be somewhat negative when what you are wanting to happen, is about to happen?

But going back to your original point about having the wool pulled over my eyes, well I don't think so, because I have worked in the building project business and understand the process and how much time it always takes for a major project. The seasonal aspect at LBA only makes the situation worse as there is effectively a window of only 6 -8 months when the works can be taken from start to finish. They simply have to get it right and hit the ground running, with an on time finish, irrespective of what the Yeadon weather throws at them!!
 
Hey firsty we can have differing views and still be 100% on the same side (just like supporting LUFC). You think I'm being overly critical and a little negative and I fear there's more to this innaction than meets the eye. Perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle?

I do respect your experience in project management, perhaps you should be in charge at LBIA. I have a pretty good knowledge of aviation too I like to think.

I like to review these threads by reading all the posts from the first page onwards - it reminds me what a long period of time 2 years is and the press releases and subsequent developments the airport has had. I really reccommend this to all posters on the forum. You have written so many great and supportive posts during this time. I like what you wrote on 17/7/09. I suppose we will never know all the conditions the airport had to fulfill after permission was granted for terminal expansion.

I didn't say you'd had the wool pulled over your eyes but strike my 'fobbed off' comment from the records. Sorry if it offended.

Anyway we all want the same thing - a successful LBIA - so here's hoping.

LUFC PETE :whiteflag:
 
I'd just like to say how much I have enjoyed reading all the recent posts. It just goes to show how a constructive, professional and grown-up debate is is possible here. Credit to all those who have taken part in the debate.
 
LUFC PETE said:
Anyway we all want the same thing - a successful LBIA - so here's hoping.

And Eventually LBA will be successful, i know people will probably think with the current state it is in it wont be successful but i can see this happening. The new terminal is to be built, new stands for aircraft are to be built, possibility of the runway being extended to take larger aircraft.

All of this combined as well as the use of the airport by the area will make it a successful airport eventually.

The next step for the airport now is to see more long haul destinations to be served by the airport. New York and Dubai defo for long haul routes.
 
Concorde Lover said:
LUFC PETE said:
Anyway we all want the same thing - a successful LBIA - so here's hoping.

And Eventually LBA will be successful, i know people will probably think with the current state it is in it wont be successful but i can see this happening. The new terminal is to be built, new stands for aircraft are to be built, possibility of the runway being extended to take larger aircraft.

All of this combined as well as the use of the airport by the area will make it a successful airport eventually.

The next step for the airport now is to see more long haul destinations to be served by the airport. New York and Dubai defo for long haul routes.

Whether we get a new look terminal with all the new fan dangles or not, the likes of New York and Dubai are still going to be very difficult for the airport to attract. The gradual roll out of the Boeing 787 and soon the Airbus A350 will see more long haul routes opened up from regional airports, but this doesn't guarantee long haul from Leeds Bradford airport. In Fact many airlines will only decide to operate such aircraft for economical reasons as opposed to wanting to open up new routes from the regions.

Focusing back on Leeds Bradford airport, we know that the work to transform our airport will have only just begun once the terminal work is complete. There are still many issues that are of concern if the airport is to move up the ranks of comparison with other regional airports.
 
xboy999 said:
When the mezzanine work is being done to extend the departure area; is the plan to use the check-in B area, or still keep check-in A open through the works?

I would think they will need to continue to keep Check-in hall A open for business because the computer systems in B hall are completely different. Basically, they're not communal systems.
 
I don't believe there is any lethargy on the part of Bridgepoint or the airport management team. On top of the very valid points Heather makes about project management, the simple truth is that they are not going to spend money unless they believe there is a good chance they will make money by doing so. We can all have views on what should or shouldn't be done, but they write the cheques and they need to be convinced it makes economic sense. This would have been no different regardless of who bought the airport.

How the airport makes the judgement on when the "right time" to start is, is going to be based on the conversations they have with their existing airline partners and prospective new airlines. The airport are in constant dialogue with airlines and at any point will have a view on the outlook for services being introduced, withdrawn or increased. They will also know how forward bookings are looking and of course any issues airlines may have with the airport relating to time keeping or customer dissatisfaction will be flagged in.

They also will make their judgement based on how much customers are prepared to spend in the airport and on car parking. Even if the airlines show committment to increase services, there is no point investing in facilities that the travelling public won't pay for. I'm sure there must be some concern and bemusement from the airport when they look at what people want from LBA. They are being constantly told to get more flights in, build a new terminal at the same time as the public demanding scrapping charges for car parking and reducing all of the prices for food in the terminal.

So, if the likes of Jet2, Ryanair and Easyet and perhaps airlines unknown to us, indicate that they have expansion plans for LBA over the next few years and if revenues from car parking, food and retail hold up, we may get the green light for development.

Personally, I don't believe they will get enough confidence to proceed with the full redevelopment as there is just too much uncertainty about the economic recovery, the potential changes to APD and emissions trading and the fact we now have MAN slashing their landing fees after a decade of zero growth over there. Hence it looks like they will utilise the existing space much more effectively and proceed with the actual extension part at a later date.

My other view, an educated guess as much as anything else, is that the key trigger will be Ryanair and their committment to the base and their willingness to bring in a third aircraft. If so, the rumoured base in MAN and any noises FR make about what that means for LBA could be the key to the whole thing. The first phase of the terminal wor will have to start in November/December and so a contract award will have to made reasonably soon if it is going to happen.
 
.....from a planning point just be thankful LBA isn't in the Yorkshire Dales National Park. You almost need planning permission to cough!!
 
At the end of the day work needs to go ahead for the new terminal and so does expansion, the airport is really starting to fall behind all other airports in the country.
 
Some very good points there LS16.

Just to add as well that the terminal refurbishment and prospect of the new extension is already playing its part in the airline 'scoop'. Both Jet2 and Thomas Cook have already announced their plans to expand from LBA, but there is a main factor that I think the airport will need to address first in order to keep the airport a 'Main Regional Player' and also to keep up with other, similar and potential airports that it needs to become like, such as; Bristol, Newcastle, East Midlands and Liverpool.

The 'other three' airlines that will and have got a part to play in the airport's future expansion, will also need to be catered for, as Jet2 and Thomas Cook already are. Ryanair, easyJet and Thomson will not be happy if they see potential in the airport, and will not be able to start operating from LBA on a much larger scale and within those peak times, if there is no-where to park their aircraft.

I have already discussed with a few members on the forum that there are around, at the moment, 2 or 3 free stands at the airport overnight, ready for the peak morning departures. The rumours circulating that we could see a Thomas Cook B757/A321 makes the situation a lot more complex as they will not be able to use 'their stand' - No 7, moving all the other aircraft 'down' a stand so that it could park on Stands 8 onwards. Jet2 have said that they are possibly increasing their aircraft presence at LBA next year as well, so this could leave the airport with 1 maybe even no free stands overnight.

This prospect would be damaging for the airport as the key opportunity with the Terminal Refurbishment and Extension, to lure more airlines to the airport as well as encouraging Ryanair, easyJet and Thomson would be another key objective by the airport, missed.
Ryanair have already expressed interest in basing a 3rd aircraft at LBA, but I feel that they would not be too happy adding more 11 O’clock Departures/Arrivals to their current LBA schedule.

The newer apron along the end of Twy N, is one that has been a huge factor in recent years for the airports expansion. It has allowed Ryanair and Thomas Cook to prime their aircraft closer to the terminal and with Jet2’s later departures in a morning, they don’t seem to mind tugging them closer to the terminal, once stands are free.
However, I can’t see Thomson, Ryanair or even easyJet being too happy with tugging their aircraft onto ‘primer’ stands. In another light I don’t think they will be able to as Thomson as well as easyJet and Ryanair love their early morning departures and without the possible future stands along Twy N, opposite the terminal they won’t be too happy with bussing their passengers to stands 19 etc. – But the Bus situation is another problem all together.

The current aircraft stand situation is one that the airport, I believe will need to address before it starts to build and produce capacity for its current and new passengers and so I produce the question; Does the airport need to produce 3 or 4 more stands, (possibly along Twy N) before it continues to cater for passengers in the airport’s terminal extension?

I feel that this could be of more importance to the airport as the terminal may be impressive to the airlines, but the aircraft parking would be a definite area that would be scrutinised and could 'put-off' airlines expanding at LBA.
As LS16 pointed out and explained well, the economy is still very delicate in terms of companies committing themselves to financing large projects. I take on-board that the economy will always be in the mind of Bridgepoint and the Airport Managers when making decisions but I think that increasing the capacity for aircraft in-between the terminal refurbishment and the terminal extension would be highly beneficial largely in a financial manor.

At the end of the day, there is no point in having a huge capacity for potential passengers and yet not being able to get them on-board as there is simply no where to park the aircraft.
 
LUFC PETE said:
Hey firsty we can have differing views and still be 100% on the same side (just like supporting LUFC). You think I'm being overly critical and a little negative and I fear there's more to this innaction than meets the eye. Perhaps the answer is somewhere in the middle?

I do respect your experience in project management, perhaps you should be in charge at LBIA. I have a pretty good knowledge of aviation too I like to think.

I like to review these threads by reading all the posts from the first page onwards - it reminds me what a long period of time 2 years is and the press releases and subsequent developments the airport has had. I really reccommend this to all posters on the forum. You have written so many great and supportive posts during this time. I like what you wrote on 17/7/09. I suppose we will never know all the conditions the airport had to fulfill after permission was granted for terminal expansion.

I didn't say you'd had the wool pulled over your eyes but strike my 'fobbed off' comment from the records. Sorry if it offended.

Anyway we all want the same thing - a successful LBIA - so here's hoping.

LUFC PETE :whiteflag:

Pete, your post did not cause any offence at all, so no worries about that. I guess I was simply trying to explain, in detail, why LBA not yet starting the terminal is reasonable in the circumstances. Hopefully, this time next year, we will be talking about how much better the terminal is, rather than when they will start. Never any doubt though that we are on the same side when it comes to LBA and our team in LS11. :friends:
 
Re-working the terminal internally this winter makes perfect sense. I think it's fair to say that the terminal as it is, is just about at capacity during the summer. The first stage work that is planned for this winter will increase the capacity by 65%, which will be more than enough to accommodate the rumoured extra services for next year. The new terminal front simply isn't needed yet. Why spend money in difficult economic times that you don't need to? Especially when there are other infrastructure projects (apron space, for example) that will need doing - it's not all about the terminal.
 
Learnt today that Bridgepoint have 'apparently' signed off the planned terminal enabling works for this coming winter. So it would appear it's all systems go for work to start in November!

Still waiting for official confirmation but hopefully White Heather will be able to confirm this at the next Consultative Meeting.
 
It's good to see that things are moving in the right direction, in regards to the Terminal Building. Hopefully as well we will be shown a proposed image/layout of the new terminal after all its changes and new features.. :good:

I would've thought however the layout will only work in the short-term, as Bridgepoint will want the new future extention to 'slot-in' to the current refurbed terminal, again reducing costs compared to what it would cost to alter the layout again to fit in with the future extension...
 
Aviador said:
Learnt today that Bridgepoint have 'apparently' signed off the planned terminal enabling works for this coming winter. So it would appear it's all systems go for work to start in November!

Still waiting for official confirmation but hopefully White Heather will be able to confirm this at the next Consultative Meeting.

Thanks for the update. When you say 'enabling' works, is that the prep work we think may be needed on the extension or the internal works - i.e. mezzanine over check-in A etc. Hopefully both.

Next consultatitive meeting is early September I believe. Tony Hallwood is the guest speaker at the Bradford Chamber of Commerce AGM tomorrow (19th) so if there is something to say, he may give an update there. Hopefully the press might report anything interesting.
 
LS16 said:
Thanks for the update. When you say 'enabling' works, is that the prep work we think may be needed on the extension or the internal works - i.e. mezzanine over check-in A etc. Hopefully both.

That I don't know LS16, sorry.

LS16 said:
Next consultatitive meeting is early September I believe. Tony Hallwood is the guest speaker at the Bradford Chamber of Commerce AGM tomorrow (19th) so if there is something to say, he may give an update there. Hopefully the press might report anything interesting.

I would think it will be JP himself that makes any official announcement, but you never know. Hopefully Tony will be able to share more information tomorrow.
 
My next door neighbour works for a large building contractors, and he told me over the weekend that his company are currently tendering for a large contract at LBA, although since he is not involved in the tender direct, he was not certain what exactly the works are . Based on what we were told at the last meeting though, it should be the internal refurbishment of the terminal to increase departure lounge capacity by 65%. Whether or not any external works will be done at the same time in preparation for the terminal extension at a later date remains to be seen. Personally I doubt it - I would have expected that to be done all as part of the same tender package along with the terminal extension, but as we have said before, they have to ensure that what they do counts as 'making a start' for planning purposes. From what my next door neighbour also told me, that can amount to nothing more than digging a hole!
 
Well it would seem that the work is going to be starting soon enough. Bits N Bobs of work appears to be getting done right now which could be preparatory work before the main work begins this November.
 
I can now confirm that the interim internal works are to commence in November this year.

After a long wait, things are finally starting to happen. By all accounts, although the work is not initially going to include the terminal extension originally approved by Leeds City Council, the work is set to change the current terminal out of all recognition.

By all accounts, the ground floor is to be opened up with a continuous flow leading from international arrivals landside through to check-in hall A with the escalator and steps to the food village being removed opening up the area.
 

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i must be a lunatic. Friday 25th Sept will see me doing a daytrip that involves me leaving my flat in Manchester at 1am and not getting back home until after midnight. All because I'm doing a Loch Ness and Scottish Highlands trip.... out of Glasgow
For some weird reason, my days off work tend to involve being out of my flat by 5am and not getting back until 10pm. Back to work and the regular "fix" of 7.40am to 7.15pm hours
Heatwave Mk2 next week?
Some explosive weather build-ups currently in the North of England. What is it like where you are?
LBA: B737-300 G-GDFK empty down to Paris at 16:15 to operate the return LS268 back to Leeds 20:00 ETA where it will then operate the delayed LS265 to Malaga 20:40ETD

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