Leeds Bradford: Ryanair Flights, New Routes & Base Updates

[Sherburnflyer92]

I will say it again,just get the bloody terminal built and the runway sorted,it will be lucky if my parents use LBA again after their experience through it last week! I was amazed they even mentioned using mancs next time!

Ryanair have operated 3 aircraft, throughout Winter and Summer periods quite happily, profitably for a number of years. Believe me this is nothing to do with the Terminal or Runway at all. Ryanair operated under the Irish register therefore operating to different CAT minima so therefore sometimes; when Jet2 or TUI or Monarch ( 😢 ) had to divert, Ryanair would be able to land.

This is more to do with the following:

1. Ryanair industrial relations with the Pilots and Cabin Crew - a miss management of them all finally coming to the surface. Associated costs also rising.
2. MOL just not letting go. Whilst he has taken Ryanair from what it was to what it is - quite successfully and praise where praise is due, unfortunately he is not able to take them into the next era, sustained growth calculated organic growth especially when with the current industrial relations. All MOL knows is - mass growth. Quick growth.
3. Delayed MAX's. If Ryanair/MOL had taken this on (and the MAX had been deemed safe) they would of had sustained growth. Christ even LBA may have seen at least one - https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-reasonably-confident-of-737-max-return-by-461194/
4. The "B" word - it's affecting confidence. However when your as profitable as Ryanair i don't understand why you would throw away markets such as Canaries and Balearic islands especially if you had your ear to the ground about TC. Sadly they, like TUI, like Jet2, cannot grow as fast as they like due to the MAX delivery delays. Just like that Ryanair have handed over the Canaries market to Jet2, TUI and easyJet this winter and, as i've previously said, practically handed some markets over to Jet2 for next summer.

LBA isn't without faults, every single one of us on this forum recognises this, but to blame it solely on them without looking at the current Ryanair situation, is just stupid. This is more to do with internal civil war within Ryanair than it is LBA. Sadly, not to take it political, just like the conservative they've now taken it to the public and bases who will suffer.

If an opportunity come up (as big as say Norwegian) come up i don't think Ryanair would be able to take it like they would of been able to do 5,6,7 years ago. And that in the industry is quite a scary thought.

 

[michael]

So clearly the current owners of LBA, and those before, and those before that, don't agree with you regarding the runway. What, exactly are you proposing they do with it? Extending at the Horsforth end isn't going to happen due to the topography - a long drop off the end of the runway that would require millions of tons of infill, not to mention the relocation of the (brand new) runway approach lighting, which would end up directly in peoples houses and gardens - so the houses would require demolition. Not going to happen.

Extending at the Yeadon end has a similar problem with topography - another significant drop in the land, very expensive and that isn't even taking into account the fact that Yeadon Cemetery would need to be dug up and all the remains re-located. On top of that, landing on runway 14 would be no different to how it is now. Aircraft already have to fly a 3.5 degree glideslope to land where they currently do whilst clearing the Chevin by the required height, so an extension won't change anything for runway 14 landings. The available landing distancw would be the same as it is now and they would over-fly nearly half the concrete before landing. The only real advantage is on runway 32 and 14 take offs. Again though, the cost, and undoubted uproar arising from such a proposal means it won't happen. Like you, I wish it would, but you going on about it at every opportunity on here isn't going to change facts.

Even moving the touch down point on 32 back to where it used to be won't happen any time soon because it will also mean changing the entire ILS system, and the entire (recently installed) runway lighting system too and the brand new approach lights, and on top of that, the CAA have issues with it and I have little doubt that so will a lot of the councillors at the Horsforth end, given it would mean aircraft landing on 32 would be a good deal lower than they currently are. Again, I wish they would (or could) do it, but I am reliably told, but at least 3 different Senior ATC's at LBA, that it cannot happen with current technology.

Simple practical facts WH, unfortunately as much as we would all like it to be different some seem unable to accept the truth

 

[LBA4EVER]

Just out of interest have they been any Ryanair reductions in based aircraft or routes cut at the other UK bases for summer 2020,I'm interested to know?

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Just out of interest have they been any Ryanair reductions in based aircraft or routes cut at the other UK bases for summer 2020,I'm interested to know?

More than likely yes. But not sure the full programmes at other bases are out yet.

 

[LBA4EVER]

LBA is just simply been left behind,it's always been the case,instead of continually improving the airport bit by bit like most the others they do nowt, its unattractive to airlines and at bursting point now,you can clearly see this. To your average passenger flying from there visually nothing has changed. I bet you all now that terminal extension will not be built until pax figures improve,instead of forward thinking and planning ahead and building it ready for an increase in pax LBA will do the op! I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Just out of interest have they been any Ryanair reductions in based aircraft or routes cut at the other UK bases for summer 2020,I'm interested to know?

With an airline like Ryanair with numerous UK and overseas bases is there a danger of becoming too hung up on the base size? This summer what would have been the base equivalent taking into account the number of services operated into LBA by Ryanair from its other bases?

My local airport is BRS with many similarities with LBA as we've often discussed on F4A. It has four based aircraft but in additon the flights that operate into it from other Ryanair bases equate to another three based aircraft. Some years ago Ryanair fell out with BRS over overnight and peak hour charges and reduced the then five-aircraft base to two. However, they maintained the same number of destinations and flights as the previous summer (slightly increased them actually) by using far more 'away' based aircraft.

BRS is now busier Ryanair-wise than when it was a five aircraft base, although some routes still go and others come as is the case with summer 2020.

You asked about other airports. With BRS the summer Shannon route has gone for 2020 - no surprise; it only operated for two summers with disappointing loads - as has at the moment Girona which seems to have been axed from most UK airports. Milan Malpensa and Bergerac are not in the booking engine but the latter only usually operates in peak summer from BRS and the route has been put into the system quite late most years. Milan Malpensa that Ryanair competes with easyJet operates this winter but as yet not next summer. On the plus side Ryanair's Laudamotion will operate Vienna next summer (announced last week), another route also operated by easyJet.

I think that Sherburnflyer's post at # 1,768 that lists extraneous circumstances is extremely relevant.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Ryanair have operated 3 aircraft, throughout Winter and Summer periods quite happily, profitably for a number of years. Believe me this is nothing to do with the Terminal or Runway at all. Ryanair operated under the Irish register therefore operating to different CAT minima so therefore sometimes; when Jet2 or TUI or Monarch ( 😢 ) had to divert, Ryanair would be able to land.

This is more to do with the following:

1. Ryanair industrial relations with the Pilots and Cabin Crew - a miss management of them all finally coming to the surface. Associated costs also rising.
2. MOL just not letting go. Whilst he has taken Ryanair from what it was to what it is - quite successfully and praise where praise is due, unfortunately he is not able to take them into the next era, sustained growth calculated organic growth especially when with the current industrial relations. All MOL knows is - mass growth. Quick growth.
3. Delayed MAX's. If Ryanair/MOL had taken this on (and the MAX had been deemed safe) they would of had sustained growth. Christ even LBA may have seen at least one - https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/ryanair-reasonably-confident-of-737-max-return-by-461194/
4. The "B" word - it's affecting confidence. However when your as profitable as Ryanair i don't understand why you would throw away markets such as Canaries and Balearic islands especially if you had your ear to the ground about TC. Sadly they, like TUI, like Jet2, cannot grow as fast as they like due to the MAX delivery delays. Just like that Ryanair have handed over the Canaries market to Jet2, TUI and easyJet this winter and, as i've previously said, practically handed some markets over to Jet2 for next summer.

LBA isn't without faults, every single one of us on this forum recognises this, but to blame it solely on them without looking at the current Ryanair situation, is just stupid. This is more to do with internal civil war within Ryanair than it is LBA. Sadly, not to take it political, just like the conservative they've now taken it to the public and bases who will suffer.

If an opportunity come up (as big as say Norwegian) come up i don't think Ryanair would be able to take it like they would of been able to do 5,6,7 years ago. And that in the industry is quite a scary thought.

This situation has nothing to do with LBA or really Ryanair.
Once again at Septembers AGM MOL painted a worrying picture of the European aviation industry and this was before the collapse of Thomas Cook.
Every seats Ryanair has sold over the last two years have been at a loss, thats over 280 million seats.
Only seat reservation, priority boarding costs etc, which now make up 17% of revenue have saved the ship.
last year Ryanair tried to lose 5 million passengers and 10% of routes and bases, but for all sorts of reasons failed, this years reductions have to be double passengers number reduction and more bases and routes.
ON their German bases they have lost £150 million in one year due to competition, this cant carry on for all airlines, the financial papers are now considering on its German losses alone Easyjet must be in the firing line to follow TC and MOL feels sure Norwegien cant survive another year and many other carriers will fold unless prices rise by 25%.
Were in a situation that unless prices rise we will see the demise of most European carriers, MOL thinks only two in the u.k. Ryanair, plus one, (for the purpose of this exercise he has become U.K.)
This has nothing to do with the Max airliner, or the B word, yes labour relations have been poor at Ryanair, MOL has been moved upstairs and a new chairman will probably show him the door, he refused to sign a 5 year contract with Ryanair last year and now has a contract with the holding company for 5 years, which both sides know is a holding position until the new Chairman arrives.
I agree with MOL the European market is like the trans atlantic market of the 70's, it took a complete blood bath to remove virtually all the airlines (Pan Am, TWA, Continental etc) and restore proper seat pricing, this has to happen in Europe now.
In the big picture situation LBA had to lose around 20% passenger numbers and the obvious situation was to drop one aircraft, every base is going to be in a similar situation, even this reduction wont make any difference to losses, as long as other carriers are prepared to run at a loss.
Talk about head in the sands time.

 

[blotbuc1]

In respect of the inadequacies of the runway WH has, once again, clearly set out the present situation and the problems which restrict making improvements.
When the runway extension was being planned I had discussions with the engineers who designed the scheme. The extension was the maximum that could be achieved to optimise the operational benefits within the physical constraints of the site and the surrounding area. The 32 threshold was moved to accommodate the requirements of the CAA for a runway end safety area and allow the installation of Cat3 approach lighting without encroaching into the residential area off Scotland Lane.
As WH, and others have stated even though we wish it was not the case we have to accept that at the present time improvements do not appear to be feasible.

 

[louis_walton]

It’s clear from all over the forum that currently Ryanair are dropping a lot of routes and removing aircraft from bases purely to remain profitable. I would much rather see a little less of Ryanair until the max comes back into service rather than never again like Thomas Cook.

 

[AirBingley]

This situation has nothing to do with LBA or really Ryanair.
Once again at Septembers AGM MOL painted a worrying picture of the European aviation industry and this was before the collapse of Thomas Cook.
Every seats Ryanair has sold over the last two years have been at a loss, thats over 280 million seats.
Only seat reservation, priority boarding costs etc, which now make up 17% of revenue have saved the ship.
last year Ryanair tried to lose 5 million passengers and 10% of routes and bases, but for all sorts of reasons failed, this years reductions have to be double passengers number reduction and more bases and routes.
ON their German bases they have lost £150 million in one year due to competition, this cant carry on for all airlines, the financial papers are now considering on its German losses alone Easyjet must be in the firing line to follow TC and MOL feels sure Norwegien cant survive another year and many other carriers will fold unless prices rise by 25%.
Were in a situation that unless prices rise we will see the demise of most European carriers, MOL thinks only two in the u.k. Ryanair, plus one, (for the purpose of this exercise he has become U.K.)
This has nothing to do with the Max airliner, or the B word, yes labour relations have been poor at Ryanair, MOL has been moved upstairs and a new chairman will probably show him the door, he refused to sign a 5 year contract with Ryanair last year and now has a contract with the holding company for 5 years, which both sides know is a holding position until the new Chairman arrives.
I agree with MOL the European market is like the trans atlantic market of the 70's, it took a complete blood bath to remove virtually all the airlines (Pan Am, TWA, Continental etc) and restore proper seat pricing, this has to happen in Europe now.
In the big picture situation LBA had to lose around 20% passenger numbers and the obvious situation was to drop one aircraft, every base is going to be in a similar situation, even this reduction wont make any difference to losses, as long as other carriers are prepared to run at a loss.
Talk about head in the sands time.

This logic is actually borne out by the majority of the flight cuts - think about it if you're flying to Tenerife you're likely to spend as much on extras (1x bag, 1x speedy board, maybe a drink and snack) possibly more from the trolley (but not proportionately) than if you're on a shorter hop so it seems FR are trying to get as many rotations as possibly out of shorter segments to get more out of the paying passenger for extras. Jet2 have a different model which is more expensive (and representative of the cost of doing business) but is backed by package holidays and hotels in the Canaries will be begging them to do more business (I bet they can get some cracking block deals) following the loss of Thomas Cook which also has a big German presence in the Canaries - so watch this space for more red and silver - our 4m per annum pax figure has not been decimated yet.

 

[Jerry]

Not true Lewis......look! They are adding new routes from some airports.

Ryanair is selling £14.99 flights with dates up to October 2020

RYANAIR has released their summer 2020 flights with up to 500 routes across Europe available to book now. To celebrate, the airline is offering cheap fares from just £14.99, which can be booked unt…

www.thesun.co.uk

This is what Ryanair is launching, for Ryanair i'd say that was quiet.

• 5 brand new routes – Edinburgh to Bydgoszcz (2 pw); Manchester to Pisa (2 pw); Stansted to Cluj (3 pw), Kosice (3 pw) & Terceira (1 pw);
• 9 new summer services – Exeter to Alicante (2 pw); Edinburgh to Bucharest (3 pw); London Stansted to Dresden (3 pw) & Essaouira (2 pw); London Luton to Krakow (4 pw) & Seville (3 pw); Manchester to Katowice (3 pw), Milan Malpensa (5 pw) & Prague (9 pw)
• More flights on 46 other routes including destinations like Budapest, Milan Bergamo & Krakow
• Over 500 routes in total
• 46.3m customers p.a.
• 35,000* on-site jobs

Ryanair Launches UK Summer 20 Schedule – More Than 500 Routes On Sale Now – Ryanair's Corporate Website

corporate.ryanair.com

 

[airforced]

Tarn Spotter

You have just mentioned in post #1774 I think that every seat Ryan has sold over the past two years has been at a loss. Please explain to the uninitiated how in such circumstances they make a profit of about €1 million or so every year.

If every seat was sold at a loss then they have done very well with their add-ons. Maybe they and MOL should be a bit more honest with their pricing and show some true flight costs and not just headline eye catching 'give away' prices that everyone with half a brain knows is never going to be the final price.

I agree that UK air travel maybe due for a shake up as far as pricing is concerned but I don't think the doom and gloom scenario you paint will be seen as accurate when it is compared with actual profits being made.

 

[louis_walton]

Tarn Spotter

You have just mentioned in post #1774 I think that every seat Ryan has sold over the past two years has been at a loss. Please explain to the uninitiated how in such circumstances they make a profit of about €1 million or so every year.

If every seat was sold at a loss then they have done very well with their add-ons. Maybe they and MOL should be a bit more honest with their pricing and show some true flight costs and not just headline eye catching 'give away' prices that everyone with half a brain knows is never going to be the final price.

I agree that UK air travel maybe due for a shake up as far as pricing is concerned but I don't think the doom and gloom scenario you paint will be seen as accurate when it is compared with actual profits being made.

I think they make most of their profit from priority boarding, onboard services, baggage, etc.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I don't believe that every single seat Ryanair sold last year was not at cost or had profit in it. They've launched a sale of seats for S20 at prices "as low as £9.99" - is it any wonder that some seats are sold as write offs. I mean even easyJet don't start at that low. It's about time Ryanair woke up and smelt the coffee:

• To sell a seat you've got to sell it at cost per seat as your base price. That is simple. Selling a B737-800 with 25 seats at £9.99, 25 more at £14.99, 30 at £25.99 is fantastic but that is not covering your basic cost per seat. I agree maybe sell 40 at low prices around your cost per seat price but not that low. Even if you make £1-£25 profit per seat cost the extra revenue from extras will ensure that seat is profitable seat. After all you've covered the costs by selling that seat - anything extra is "pure" profit in a way.
• Maybe not in the "speedy turn arounds" and "increase utilisation" but between the aircrafts morning departures and afternoon departures; re cater and re load the aircraft with catering, duty free etc. Increasing yet more revenue. Sounds mad for Ryanair but such a simple concept. I know ex Ryanair cabin crew who said when he was on late flights (e.g. LBA-AGP-LBA 17:00 departure) aircraft had already been to somewhere like TFS, there would be literally nothing left to sell due to the longer previous sector therefore no money was made. Seems mad for an airline Ryanair's size not to be looking at opportunities like that to increase revenue and thus profit.
• Wake up and smell the coffee - time to rise your costs to look after crew. Ryanair should be like Southwest in USA, every pilots aspiration to work for. Fantastic product for customers with good customer service; good employee relations - especially between crew and management; large network with varied bases of different sizes.
• You cannot sustain such growth without taking the next few years to slow growth right down; and focused on other areas of the business and try getting them right. For example - Customer Service improvements which seem to have flopped. The airline have grown so large that there seems to be no focused improvements on the right stuff.

MOL yesterday said that the package holiday industry was dead due to the TC collapse. Never have i laughed so much at such bullish*t. Jet2holidays good example of why it is not dead, easyJet wanting to get in on the action of easyJet holidays too again good example of why it is not dead and only a year or two ago Ryanair were keen on starting a tour operator up or entering some relationship to offer "package" holidays to some degree.

I read something somewhere which i tend to agree with a little - i think that the recent Jet2 expansion has rattled Ryanair in the UK market a lot. The frequency of the routes they operate (which in some bases up against Ryanair looks embarrassing), the volume of which they can shift customers to destination, the award winning customer service they offer, and the fact that a good % are package holiday customers all mean, on some routes when you've got Jet2 v Ryanair some customers would rather pay the extra for Jet2. Jet2 are wiping the floor.

MOL/Ryanair will always have good PR spin - it is everyone else fault but their own. Not to get political but its a bit like our present government.

 

[Jerry]

know ex Ryanair cabin crew who said when he was on late flights (e.g. LBA-AGP-LBA 17:00 departure) aircraft had already been to somewhere like TFS, there would be literally nothing left to sell due to the longer previous sector therefore no money was made. Seems mad for an airline Ryanair's size not to be looking at opportunities like that to increase revenue and thus profit.

What I find interesting is that a lot of the cuts have come on flights like Tenerife and lanzarote. Flights which I'd have thought in general would have higher yields due to it being a longer flight and one where checked baggage is taken as well.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Just seen that Ryanair are selling seats as low as £5.99. Jesus Christ on bike.

 

[User1007]

‘

Yes, they have a few destinations from STN to France for £5.99 one way....Incredible.

All on routes with no competing direct flights from any London airport. A problem of Ryanair's own making?

 

[Len Fish]

‘

Yes, they have a few destinations from STN to France for £5.99 one way....Incredible.

Loss leaders and makes for great advertising and press coverage?

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I don't believe that every single seat Ryanair sold last year was not at cost or had profit in it. They've launched a sale of seats for S20 at prices "as low as £9.99" - is it any wonder that some seats are sold as write offs. I mean even easyJet don't start at that low. It's about time Ryanair woke up and smelt the coffee:

• To sell a seat you've got to sell it at cost per seat as your base price. That is simple. Selling a B737-800 with 25 seats at £9.99, 25 more at £14.99, 30 at £25.99 is fantastic but that is not covering your basic cost per seat. I agree maybe sell 40 at low prices around your cost per seat price but not that low. Even if you make £1-£25 profit per seat cost the extra revenue from extras will ensure that seat is profitable seat. After all you've covered the costs by selling that seat - anything extra is "pure" profit in a way.
• Maybe not in the "speedy turn arounds" and "increase utilisation" but between the aircrafts morning departures and afternoon departures; re cater and re load the aircraft with catering, duty free etc. Increasing yet more revenue. Sounds mad for Ryanair but such a simple concept. I know ex Ryanair cabin crew who said when he was on late flights (e.g. LBA-AGP-LBA 17:00 departure) aircraft had already been to somewhere like TFS, there would be literally nothing left to sell due to the longer previous sector therefore no money was made. Seems mad for an airline Ryanair's size not to be looking at opportunities like that to increase revenue and thus profit.
• Wake up and smell the coffee - time to rise your costs to look after crew. Ryanair should be like Southwest in USA, every pilots aspiration to work for. Fantastic product for customers with good customer service; good employee relations - especially between crew and management; large network with varied bases of different sizes.
• You cannot sustain such growth without taking the next few years to slow growth right down; and focused on other areas of the business and try getting them right. For example - Customer Service improvements which seem to have flopped. The airline have grown so large that there seems to be no focused improvements on the right stuff.

MOL yesterday said that the package holiday industry was dead due to the TC collapse. Never have i laughed so much at such bullish*t. Jet2holidays good example of why it is not dead, easyJet wanting to get in on the action of easyJet holidays too again good example of why it is not dead and only a year or two ago Ryanair were keen on starting a tour operator up or entering some relationship to offer "package" holidays to some degree.

I read something somewhere which i tend to agree with a little - i think that the recent Jet2 expansion has rattled Ryanair in the UK market a lot. The frequency of the routes they operate (which in some bases up against Ryanair looks embarrassing), the volume of which they can shift customers to destination, the award winning customer service they offer, and the fact that a good % are package holiday customers all mean, on some routes when you've got Jet2 v Ryanair some customers would rather pay the extra for Jet2. Jet2 are wiping the floor.

MOL/Ryanair will always have good PR spin - it is everyone else fault but their own. Not to get political but its a bit like our present government.

I was quoting MOL who stated at the AGM every seat sold at a loss.
The maths are quite simple the depreciation cost of a 737 is £4M per year (25 year life, straight line basis). If you assume totally full and doing 6 sectors a day for 330 days (maintenance periods etc) this comes to 374200 seats for sale.
This works out just to buy the replacement aircraft 10.69 per seat, before it even moves.
I agree with MOL that the package holiday business that we know today is coming to an end.
I am a Dart shareholder as well as Ryanair, I am concerned that the Jet2 holiday business is not sustainable in its present form and that Jet2 dont have the capital base to move the way TUI has and may well catch a cold.
I am told by hoteliers I know in Spain that the A.I. basis will be dead in the water very soon, something all local authorities in Spain want as its destroyed local food business and we go back to half board etc
Spanish hoteliers are also concerned that 90% of their compensation claims are from u.k. customers, yet under 50% of their overall customer base.
TC, Jet2 have tried to pass back the claims to the hotel, but even before the TC failure a huge push back by the hoteliers. TUI rightly in my view has decided that the right way is to put their own management in the hotels and take full responsibility for the whole operation, whether Jet2 has the funds to do this, including buying the hotels themselves has to be seen.
If you consider that Ryanair has 450 aircraft making £1M a year total its a woeful return, you could put the money in the bank and earn more.

 

[Len Fish]

They’re getting as bad as DFS, a sale every other week! Can’t help feeling it’s only being done for publicity purposes, as O’Weary himself recognised such bargain fares are unsustainable.