Pakistan International Airlines

[White Heather]

Concorde lover, I agree that we need other airlines in at LBA and not just Jet2 operations, but as you say yourself, if AirBlue don't do it, then there are no Pakistani airlines left to do so, and I would rather have the route operated by a British airline (Jet2 being the most likely candidate from LBA) than nobody at all. My preference is as stated above - AirBlue to both Islamabad and Lahore via Dubai, but to be honest I don't think LBA are in a position to be picky over this. They will do very well to get any other airline to do it, especially with Pakistan being a high security risk.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Being "in discussions" about the service sounds very much like a convenient way of saying "withdrawal" to me.

With regards to taking over the service, regardless of who COULD potentially take over the route, how many are actually ABLE to do so? It is the beginning of the summer season. Which airline has the spare capacity to take over the route? I doubt that is an immediate possibility.

I think the correct strategy would be to court the long term viability of the route, of which there is no doubt, to potential airlines. Jet2 would be an obvious target but it would require a significant commitment from them including procurement of further aircraft. In any case, they would be unable to commit to that until at least the end of the summer season and rejigging of existing winter schedules would be an inevitablity. On the plus side, diversions over the hill would potentially be less of an issue.

I'm not entirely sure who else would even be interested. There has to be a significant security issue for British airlines, as pointed out by White Heather. It has to be a LBA based aircraft or a Pakistan based aircraft and both of those are a rare commodity. I think it is also important to remain realistic. Islamabad twice a week has been working nicely and to replace it like for like would be the safe and correct option imo. To suddenly unsettle that with extra operations to Lahore and via Dubai would be a risky move and potentially make the routes unviable. It would also kill off (the slim) possibilty of luring EK to LBA - which, with its onward connections, make the Dubai route viable.

I personally think that PIA have looked at the situation sensibly as far as their own operation is concerned. They have had a number of diversions to Manchester due to a number of factors - mainly due to certain issues with using the A310 at LBA. In their eyes, they may as well consolidate their operation at Manchester from a cost and performance point of view. I will post in the General thread further on my opinions as I do not want to stray too far from topic but, I believe, the loss of PIA is due to the wider implications of Aircraft and Airport operational ability and not because of diluting demand at Manchester or numbers at LBA.

 

[User0001]

Fuel prices have soared in two years and PIA are getting rid of half of the A310 fleet. I suspect these two things are not coincidence.
So, if they have to review the schedule to cope with fewer A310s, one of the first places they will look is LBA given its proximity to MAN. Unfortunate but realistic. A key factor here is whether, after 11 June, there is any evidence of a capacity increase in MAN. Were it the case that a couple of weekly A310 flights suddenly appear from MAN, then there would be a strong case that operational issues at LBA were at play. If however, there is no capcity increase at all, then clearly PIA have a serious revenue or cost problem that they need to solve. Either way, running the service from one airport ony with the cheapest possible seat cost is a good start.
The third option is that they add 777 capacity into MAN to mop up the LBA demand, in which case the logical explanation is that the demand is there, but LBA couldn't handle the 777. This option would represent the best option for the LBA marketing team, as it gives them a negotiating hook with Air Blue. In otherwords, they can prove demand for 35,000 passengers per year from LBA and they will remind Air Blue that they are suddenly going to see capcaity being increased on a route they operate on. With the strong support that the airport gets from the local travel agencies in Bradford, they have a decent case to make.

Jet2 won't be interested running anything scheduled, nor would I worry that any operation via the Middle East would have any impact whatsoever on the chances of EK turning up in the next few years.

 

[wawkrk]

Seems to be a rumour PIA are not pulling out.

 

[Aviador]

Seems to be a rumour PIA are not pulling out.

I wouldn't trust your source. People "high-up in Servisair" will be the last to find out.

Seriously though, PIA are definately leaving LBA unless the airport can come to some sort of agreement. Frankly I see this as very unlikely now with only 3-4 weeks lead in time for selling seats after 11th June. Furthermore, I wouldn't have thought PIA will have made the decision on a whim in the first place.

This is a screen capture taken this morning of the PIA booking system after the 11th of June.

 

[wawkrk]

Always better to ask the cleaners.

 

[empire]

It is true, flights will continue. Should go back on sale sometime today.

 

[a300boy]

Bookings now possible in July 2011 on the Pia website so it looks like we are back to normal !!!

 

[Aviador]

It is true, flights will continue. Should go back on sale sometime today.

Yes it would seem this is correct. Tony Hallwood must have managed to persuade them to stay.

 

[White Heather]

Well everyone, I have just returned from the Airport Consultative Committee meeting and it appears that Bridgepoint, in particular John Parkin and Tony Hallwood, have pulled it off and PIA are NOT pulling out of LBA. Seats after the 11th June either are, or very soon will be, back on sale again shortly. It was confirmed that the route will continue and 'is likely to grow' in the future.

It was confirmed also that the route has carried loads of as high as 95% but is currently settled at around 85%. The reason for the original decision was relating to yields per seat, not loads and was effectively a consolidation as previously suggested. This was directly due to the high oil prices coupled with the fact that by today's standards, the A310 is a gas guzzler. The 777 in comparison is frugal. We were advised the a switch to the 777 remains a joint target for both LBIA and PIA, but there is no date set.

It was stated that LBIA and PIA have always had a very good relationship (despite the rumours being put about that the airline are upset with LBIA over the noise transgressions following delays) and that if anything, following the events of the past two weeks, relationships are stronger than ever.

 

[Aviador]

It is clear now that PIA did indeed intend to leave LBA.

It is good to hear the airport management have managed to persuade them to stay.

In line with your comments about potentially growing the route, Bradford travel agents are now suggesting the flight may even go back to 3 x weekly. Pure speculation on their behalf I would think but PIA have obviously got a deal they couldn't refuse.

 

[White Heather]

Nothing given away by the airport as that would be Commercial in Confidence, but they obviously did something to make help PIA make the route more profitable until such time as the A310 can be replaced with something more fuel efficient.

 

[tleeds]

I'm thinking that the airport may have agreed on slightly altering landing fees and general charges that the airport would charge PIA in order to reduce PIA's costs and ultimately give them a higher return on their flights - enabling them to remain on the Islamabad service.

 

[User0001]

It's highly unusual for an airline to announce a withdrawl in the press and remove a flight from sale, to then have a change of heart. Hopefully there will be some recognition that the airport management team have pulled something off here. I think the A310 is obviously not a long term solution, but even if they have managed to buy some time see whether the 777 can operate on some basis then it is still an achievement
Good to hear the urban myths of about the noise thing being put to bed as well

 

[Moo2009]

I also attended the meeting as an observer, I am a student at the aviation Acadamy. Am sure that John Parkin did say about pia expanding in the future I am sure White Heather will clarify this I must also point out assuming it was White Heather that she congratulated the management for pulling this off with pia

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Finally, something positive from LBA. The woods are, however, still dark and expansive and I think the long term strategy has to be cautious. PIA are, realistically, the only possibility of a connection with Pakistan. Air Blue have been mentioned a number of times but they drive an A321 with a refuelling stopover from Manchester, which is not an ideal solution.

Certainly, the management should be congratulated on the agreement. However, I have a couple of queries/fears. If the load factor is "settled" at 85% on an A310 twice weekly, what is the likelihood of a 777 being a better solution? If yield is the major factor, wouldn't a lower load factor on a 777 be just as much of an issue? Also, how long before Mr O'Leary cottons on to whatever deal has been struck and knocks on the door....

 

[wawkrk]

Maybe PIA cottoned on to MOL's deal more like.

 

[eastcoaster]

If the load factor is "settled" at 85% on an A310 twice weekly, what is the likelihood of a 777 being a better solution? If yield is the major factor, wouldn't a lower load factor on a 777 be just as much of an issue? Also, how long before Mr O'Leary cottons on to whatever deal has been struck and knocks on the door....

Using a Boeing 777 with more seats would enable PIA to offer more seats at a lower fare, which at the moment is restricted with a smaller A310. So no worries about the figure mentioned at the moment, this figure would increase pro rata with the size of the aircraft. Plus I know the 777 has a greater appeal with its modern entertainmant system as opposed to the A310s "tired" cabin.

 

[dmrodgers]

Statement on the LBA website, looks like we may get the 777 sooner rather than later if you believe PIA.

News Story
PIA to Continue Operating Flights to Islamabad from LBA

27 May 2011

Leeds Bradford Airport (LBA) and Pakistan’s national airline, Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), are please to confirm the continuation of a twice weekly service from Leeds Bradford to Islamabad.

The non-stop service operates on a Wednesday and Saturday on a A310 aircraft which offers both economy and business class.

Tony Hallwood, Commercial & Aviation Development Director at LBA said: “We would like to thank the Bradford and wider Yorkshire community for its support in retaining this vital international link. We are now looking forward to building our relationship with PIA to develop and grow traffic on this flagship route”.

General Manager Revenue Management at PIA Head Office, Mr. Rashid Aziz, said: “PIA has decided to continue the above service from LBA to ISB for the benefit of the Pakistani/Kashmiri community. This service will provide them door to door non-stop flights for the larger benefit of the community and in return PIA Management expects the Pakistani community to encourage and promote the airline “as Great People to Fly with” and enable us to extend a better service with a B777 in the near future”.

For availability and fares, please see www.piac.com.pk or contact:
PIA Booking Office Bradford
Unit 1, Broadgate House, Manor Row, BD1
01274 731 705/731 804/731 801

Alternatively you can call the free toll number 0800 587 1023 or contact your local PIA appointed agents for further assistance.

 

[White Heather]

I would think so too Tom. The airport and PIA have today issued a press release confirming the continuation of the service and suggesting a switch to the 777 'in the near future'. (and that bit was a quote from a PIA spokeman, not LBA). It also confirms the route is to remain twice weekly (at least for now).