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Air Traffic, ILS & Navigation Aids

oldendays

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2009
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For at least the last two hours the LBA ATIS has been reporting CAVOK. I don't know if this is a technical problem or human error but there is definitely significant cloud below 5000 ft. out there. Visibility is excellent, mind.
 

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White Heather

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2009
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At today's Consultative Committee meeting, there was a presentation on the new Controlled Airspace proposals. I have yet to read the report provided, but what is being proposed is basically that the airspace allocated to LBA is englarged, which will then enable aircraft to make a continuous descent into LBA via published routings (saving fuel and reducing noise levels), whilst departing aircraft will be able to make a continuous climb to a higher level. The proposal also is that flight routings are spread out more, which will mean some areas having aircraft over-flying where it doesn't happen now, but - those aircraft are likely to fly a higher altitude so noise levels should be minimal. The proposals have already been subject to public comment and the final proposals are due to the CAA around November. The CAA have 16 weeks to review them, comment and (hopefully) sign them off and if all that goes well, the new procedures could start to be rolled out from the end of February 2019.
 

oldendays

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2009
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There appears to be some atmospheric influence at work this morning. Earlier on I could pick up Manchester Tower, Radar and Director on an Icom handheld with just a whip antenna. TX was faint but audible. On the flip side there is noticeable white noise on Leeds Tower, behind both ATC and aircraft TX. Radar doesn't seem to be as badly affected and Delivery is fine.
 

oldendays

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2009
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Serious question. Has the definition of CAVOK changed recently ? The LBA ATIS is currently broadcasting CAVOK yet there is definitely grey and white cloud out there and almost certainly below FL50.
Thankyou.
 

oldendays

Well-Known Member
Sep 19, 2009
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It's the second time recently I've noticed this CAVOK business. Either my cloud perception isn't what it was or the ceilometer is misbehaving.
 
Aug 28, 2014
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Fair point, but I've seen lots of cloud over LBA over the decades and what I saw looked on the low side. We'll never know either way now !
Is there anybody in 'the industry' able to state the CAVOK rules? I presume that visibility of greater than 10 kilometres is an easy one to gauge as it's just over 6 miles, but how far can cloud below 5000 feet be away from the airfield before it is not considered to be significant in the assessment?

As Love Island would say #startthediscussion #stareintothesky


BH
 

Severn

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Mar 24, 2012
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CAVOK
CAVOK is included in an ATIS in place of visibility, present weather and cloud when the following conditions occur simultaneously at the time of observation:
  • visibility of 10km or more; and
  • no cloud below 5000ft or below the highest 25nm minimum sector altitude* (converted to height above the airport), whichever is the greater; and
  • no Cumulonimbus or Towering Cumulus (at any height); and
  • no significant weather phenomena (ie, no reportable weather in the ATIS, including weather phenomena ‘in the vicinity’).
*Highest minimum sector altitude (MSA) is defined by ICAO Annex 3 as:

“The lowest altitude which may be used which will provide a minimum clearance of 300m (1000ft) above all objects located in the area contained within a sector of a circle of 46km (25nm) radius centred on a radio aid to navigation.”
 

White Heather

Platinum Member
Jan 14, 2009
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Sadly, the MOD have just announced the closure of RAF Linton on Ouse, one of the UKs busiest RAF bases. This is sad indeed after the loss of RAF Church Fenton, and Finningley in the past and I guess it will mean that we may no longer see the familiar Tucano's training at high level over North Yorkshire. One plus however, may be that the closure will remove some of the pressure on LBA's airspace and allow aircraft to operate more safely to the East of the airfield. I know they have abandoned plans to have departures off 32 turning right and heading to Europe to the East of LBA due to the proximity of military flying, but I wonder whether they would have done so had they known that Linton on Ouse was going to close? The nearest RAF base will now be Leeming and that is a good 30 miles further North.
 

Bigman

Well-Known Member
Jan 14, 2009
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Shame about Linton-on-Ouse. Shame it isn’t a longer runway. They could have opened it up as a civil airport and built a new parkway station a few miles away to the East at Tollerton on the ECML and also a nice link road to the A1M to the West. They could then shut LBA, DSA and DTV all down and make one super Yorkshire airport (ONLY JOKING!!)
 

lbaspotter

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Staff member
Jan 14, 2009
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www.lbaspotters.net
Moderator #296
Its not new news, as It's been known and planned for quite a while now that RAF Linton on Ouse was due to close in 2020. The Tucano's are moving to RAF Valley.

Also looks like RAF Scampton is to be closed in 2020 with the possibility of the Red Arrows moving to Yorkshire, taking a wild guess RAF Leeming may be in contention with it being a base for 100 Squadrons Hawk aircraft. There again they may want to stay in Lincolnshire so move into RAF Cranwell.
 
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Offint

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2016
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Ilkley
Sat in the garden this afternoon and the Sunwing pilot took a big chunk off his final approach into LBA.....came directly over my house in Ilkley....the Ryanair pilot came in a few minutes later and took the correct approach......why do they do that?




B4DDE72C-F8F7-4359-A69F-1A98518458A3.png 25020B7E-BD5E-4E59-BDCB-DB1199572FFF.png
 

a300boy

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Dec 8, 2010
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Moderator #298
Maybe the Sunway took a visual approach and if he did he can make his own mind up as to when he turns base as long as he is not below a certain altitude.
 

airforced

Active Member
May 5, 2010
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a300boy is probably right plus the fact that on time performance will probably had much to do with it. The Sunwing chose to make a shortened approach to get in much nearer to his scheduled arrival time than would have been the case if he had taken the route the later Ryan took.
 
Nov 8, 2010
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There is no ‘correct’ path as such - as long as the aircraft ends up on a stable final approach then they can elect to take a visual approach (guiding the aircraft visually, without using the ILS), or they can accept vectors from ATC for a shorter final intercept, which looks like the case with the Sunwing.

When there are multiple arrivals, the track an aircraft follows will ultimately be what is required by ATC to ensure appropriate spacing between successive aircraft, which may be why the Ryanair above took a longer track.
 

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