Air Traffic, ILS & Navigation Aids

[yorkie40]

Couldn't the terrain have been profiled and the new G/S installed to perhaps 3.2 degrees meaning that all that was then required for Cat 2/3 wld have been a lighting system?

Then a concerted effort to find the funding for the light system cld have commenced.

I personally was dismayed to learn that the new G/S was going to be set at 3.5 degrees.

So much good work by so many people attracting these airlines is undone when a/c divert.

I think most are dismayed, the airport has spent money on the new antena to bring it back to how it was before the light aircraft knackered it, and it was no good then,the way I look at it if they spent a bit more and upgraded it in turn it would stop a lot of diverts and we all know they cost money aswell. :whiteflag:

 

[quik123]

I'd like to throw a few thoughts which might clear up some misunderstanding.
The 14 GP "equipment" has not been replaced. There is nothing wrong with it and it is already capable of CAT3 operations. It is the aerial system that has been replaced. Again it is already CAT3 capable. In fact the 14 GP and the 32GP are technically the same. The only thing that is different is the construction of the mast. The new one is aluminum and will allow the aerials to be adjusted if a different glide path angle is required. IT IS NOT the ILS which holds back any change to CAT2 or 3. I don't think LBIA has missed an opportunity to "upgrade" as that opportunity never existed. We had an unfortunate accident, insurance providers have been involved, and now we are close to getting back to how we were before the accident. I think as someone else pointed out it is terrain, the airfield ground lighting system etc. which all contribute to the current restrictions.

 

[ridgeback]

Thanks for your post quik123

If the GP angle can be easily adjusted then great. It is my, entirely unscientific, opinion that an angle of 3.5 is not necessary. I may be COMPLETELY wrong but i look at the terrain and just can't see why its so steep (and I have been to plenty of places with steep g/s approaches.)

No one talked about 'upgrading' simply about the angle which is too steep for autoland. With a new aerial being installed surly that is the time to explore shallowing the angle at minimal cost?

My point was that there are 2 blockers that i am aware of currently to having Cat 3 on runway 14 and that is A) the glideslope angle which needs to be max 3.2 degrees and B) upgraded lighting. The 2 are dependent on each other and I felt that perhaps with ILS specialists on site after the light a/c crash perhaps the g/s part of this conundrum could have been solved.

I'm not mud slinging and can only imagine the despair in the offices on days like today but they will keep on happening until this is resolved. Surely everyone can see that.

 

[a300boy]

quik123
Thanks for the explanation. I had been told about this before by a previous Satco but my memory has let me down.
ridgeback speaks for us all in wishing for a fix to this long term problem but money is the key. Even Cat 3 on 14 would have made little difference yesterday as the flight from New York was a B757 so due to LDA would pobably not have been able to autoland and the other aircraft that diverted were Cat 2 only and the Rvrs were below the minima for such an approach until about 20 mins before the fog cleared. The exception was the BA A319 which was presumably too heavy or unable to use runway 32 with the tailwind at the time.

 

[ridgeback]

At the weight it was yesterday the BA machine cld have autolanded on 32 with 3kt TWC WET & 9kt TWC DRY unless there were factors I was unaware of. I think the rwy was wet and the wind circa 150/10 so non starter hence the fairly quick decision to divert.

I'm sure you are correct about the other machines not being Cat3 a300boy but I still feel that with Cat 3 on both ends of the runway the blame for any diversions shifts squarely to the airline rather than the airport. Plus for a lot of airlines the issue wld disappear MON, BA, LS (757 aside)

I repeat the council shd have sorted this out before selling. Our region is something of a regional economic powerhouse and needs an infrastructure to help.

The airport is 700' up and needs equipment to match that. It's as simple as that.

 

[Bigman]

We could always bulldoze the top 50ft off the Chevin to reduce the glide slope...and use the muck as infill for a 300m extension. Oh..sorry just remembered, it's Halloween and not April Fools Day!!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

We could always bulldoze the top 50ft off the Chevin to reduce the glide slope...and use the muck as infill for a 300m extension. Oh..sorry just remembered, it's Halloween and not April Fools Day!!

They would do that in somewhere like Dubai without even blinking. Not in this country though where the default is 'cannot do' instead of 'can do'.

 

[Aviador]

The daft thing is there's an old quarry on the Chevin right where the aircraft fly over. It's probably already 50ft lighter than it used to be.

 

[yorkie40]

Does anybody know if the runway 14 glide slope up and running yet? If not what is the hold up now?

 

[lbaspotter]

Does anybody know if the runway 14 glide slope up and running yet? If not what is the hold up now?

Its must be up and running as the NOTAM has been removed... That's of course if it hasn't been updated yet!

 

[Heff0927]

14 glide path fully serviceable as of 0845 today. Notams amended, cancelled etc as required.

 

[White Heather]

Worth pointing out that the ILS is up and running several weeks before the original schedule, which was the end of November. Considering that the entire process was hampered by insurance involvement, a 6 week lead in for the manufacture of the aerial equipment, they have actually got it installed, up and running in quick time.

 

[a300boy]

I agree ! I am so happy as it looks like we will need it later this week based on the weather forecast.

 

[JakeS]

Nice to see some official photos have been taken for social media:
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialLeedsBradfordAirport/posts/1079004828804065

 

[oldendays]

Haven't seen the Facebook pics so I looked at a press download on the LBIA website. I hope they've got more room up there. It's difficult to tell from just a couple of pictures.

One thing I have noticed from other recent radar room projects, i.e. Ronaldsway and Manchester is the large number of monitors on the desk. Obviously one (or two ) is a radar display but several others as well. No doubt of an operational necessity but I can't help thinking creating a cluttered appearance too.

Glad the LBIA radar room has been upgraded but I need more pictures, or to pay a visit.

 

[radar]

Your wish is my command!

A before and after from roughly the same angle:

And a shot of the Radar 1 position:

 

[oldendays]

I approve ! Glad to see all those windows have been put to use 32 years later.

 

[oldendays]

A couple of things stand out on closer examination of these pictures. Firstly, manual flight progress strips and holders. They do the job perfectly but are, I think it is fair to say, a little old hat. I don't suppose it will be too long before they are supplanted by the EFPS system. Secondly, I noticed the three positions are virtually identical in terms of equipment which I assume means the radar controller could sit at any position. Perhaps the radar ATCA still occupies the left-hand position, complete with radar display.

Nice kit though

 

[radar]

A couple of things stand out on closer examination of these pictures. Firstly, manual flight progress strips and holders. They do the job perfectly but are, I think it is fair to say, a little old hat. I don't suppose it will be too long before they are supplanted by the EFPS system.

Electronic strips weren't within the scope of this project, it was centred on replacing the Radar Data Processor - i.e. the radar displays. These are the large, widescreen displays you can see. In addition, a new electronic information display system was brought in - these are the smaller widescreen monitors you can see above the radar displays, and they display documents and charts onscreen instead of having paper copies, as well as performing other tasks linked to the radar displays.

Because these systems were broadly different from what they replaced and wouldn't fit the old setting, the opportunities to bring the console furniture up to date and refurbish the room were taken up.

Secondly, I noticed the three positions are virtually identical in terms of equipment which I assume means the radar controller could sit at any position. Perhaps the radar ATCA still occupies the left-hand position, complete with radar display.

They are similar, but not identical. From the left there is a supervisor desk, Radar 2, Radar 1, and then the Radar Assistant on the right of the picture. Radar 1 & 2 are very similar. The Radar Assistant has the same radar and information displays, but reversed, so that the radar is on the smaller screen at the top, and the information display is on the larger screen below. They also have another display just out of shot to the right dealing with flightplan information.

 

[oldendays]

Thankyou for taking the trouble to explain, radar. Very informative. I take a lot of interest in the practical and technical details of ATC so this is all good to know.