Leeds Bradford: Ryanair Flights, New Routes & Base Updates

[lbia]

MY GOD I'm never writing a post for this website on my ipad again as it just disappears the second you press post! Anyway, I've scribed it out again....

LS16, I'm not quite sure how you quantify distance in miles as a comparison as airlines do not widely publish the length of routes, I'm guessing you used some rough predictions?

I have made a comparison on block to block times for the routes Ryanair and Jet2 fly from LBA, to create an accurately mesureable comparison. (This does not include turn around times, purely the blocks to blocks time.)

Jet2:
Average stage length per flight: 3.11 hours

Ryanair:
Average stage length per flight: 3.08 hours

Obviously they are very similar but Jet2 do have a slightly longer stage length per flight, due to the considerable range of routes that are over 4 hours (Ryanair's entire offering of flights 3+ hours is comparable to Jet2's offering only to the canaries, excluding all the other long routes to Greece/Turkey etc) however this is then compensated for in the range of shorter routes Jet2 offer, bringing the average figure just marginally above Ryanair's. It was pretty easy to work this out as I can run the Jet2 figures from a work computer but I had to manually input all the Ryanair figures. I was going to work out the average hours per based airframe but it got too confusing with the non based units by Ryanair and to be quite honest I don't think anyone really cares that much. Needless to say though, that Ryanair's figure for this comparison would be considerably larger. It is also worth noting than on some routes, Ryanair's block times are 5 minutes longer than Jet2's, I would imagine if they were like for like it would only change the average by less than 0.1

As Ryanair push for more flights per day, per aircraft they tend to avoid the typical departure waves between 8-9 am and 3-4 pm. That is how Ryanair's business is built, on very small margins per passenger but to compensate for the low margins, maximising volumes by having 6 rotations to make up for this potential loss. Jet2 and the likes of Monarch and bmi baby to a lesser extent work on considerably higher yields per passenger by flying an average of 4 sectors a day with higher load factors, hence not needing to fly as many flights each day.

By offering only 4 sectors a day, Jet2 are able to charge more for the 'convenient' flight departure times where as Ryanair are not so bothered about this, they don't really care if you have to get up at 1am to get to the airport for 4 am. As we have discussed, they are both very different and with both you certainly get what you pay for. I think people know that with Ryanair you stick to the rules and most likely will leave or arrive at your hotel at a pretty crappy time but who cares for a tenner. With Jet2 you know that generally the flight times are much more sympathetic on the alarm clock but this is, as a general rule, reflected in the price.

It may be worth noting that this year Jet2 have (on average) dropped ticket prices by around 2.3% per person compared to last year where as Ryanair increased their fares by (on average) 12% per person. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens over the next few years, personally I have always said that it was never sustainable for Ryanair to keep charging stupidly cheap fares and perhaps this has been reflected in their average price increases. I think they have realised that price leadership will not will in every single market, what will happen if Ryanair and Jet2's fares (for example) even out and became even similar. I think Ryanair may loose on that front unless their customer service is dramatically improved. I'm not bashing them one bit, I think they are great at what they do but explore this from a potential passengers view;

LBA-Murcia.
Jet2 - £70 one way, including 22kg bag. 08.00 departure and 12.00 arrival time, free allocated seat and 70 points in your myjet2 account.
Ryanair - £65 one way, including 15kg bag. 17.50 departure, 21.50 arrival time.

Who gets your money? Unless Ryanair are significantly cheaper, I think Jet2.

 

[airforced]

........................... It may be worth noting that this year Jet2 have (on average) dropped ticket prices by around 2.3% per person compared to last year where as Ryanair increased their fares by (on average) 12% per person. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens over the next few years, personally I have always said that it was never sustainable for Ryanair to keep charging stupidly cheap fares and perhaps this has been reflected in their average price increases. I think they have realised that price leadership will not will in every single market, what will happen if Ryanair and Jet2's fares (for example) even out and became even similar. I think Ryanair may loose on that front unless their customer service is dramatically improved. I'm not bashing them one bit, I think they are great at what they do but explore this from a potential passengers view;

LBA-Murcia.
Jet2 - £70 one way, including 22kg bag. 08.00 departure and 12.00 arrival time, free allocated seat and 70 points in your myjet2 account.
Ryanair - £65 one way, including 15kg bag. 17.50 departure, 21.50 arrival time.

Who gets your money? Unless Ryanair are significantly cheaper, I think Jet2.

I think the points you made back in January are relevant to the discussions currently taking place on the Weather & Technical Diversions, Delays & Cancellations thread.

Ryanair are smart operators who have built a very successful and profitable business in no time at all really by initially providing an inexpensive point to point air service across Europe.

The fact that this has been done by wangling very low, or some cases, zero landing fees and local government subsidies in unattractive regions where no, or very little, tourist infrastructure existed has paid great dividends for the airline and, probably, when everything is tallied up, for the regions themselves. They went and concluded some great deals with Boeing at a time when no-one else was really buying many aircraft. They made the Ryanair brand desirable to virtually everyone - except of course the legacy carriers who wished a plague of whatever on them.

One of the main planks of their success was the "£1 fares". Of course, once all the extras were added on, there never was a £1 fare - but hey who cares. A certain Mr O'Leary appeared on TV on a regular basis usually suggesting some weird and wonderful new gimmick which may or may not have been feasible but always stressing the "fact" that his fares cost peanuts and therefore passengers couldn't expect any of the frills associated with other airlines.

So far so good. Ryanair soon became the Marmite of the airline world. You either loved them or hated them. The haters of Marmite cited extra charges and nil service as their main bugbears. There have been websites set up such as I Hate Ryanair, protesters handcuffing themselves to the goalposts at a televised football match and so on. The list is legion and seemingly endless.

The world at large still think of them as being THE low cost airline and so their popularity it seems remains undiminished.

Some will see this post as a rant against Ryanair but it isn't. They are a very successful organisation who will no doubt continue to be successful going forward.

This post poses a question and that question is, "Should Ryanair, and all other airlines for that matter, be regulated so they are obliged to provide a certain level of service when they cancel flights as has been the case this week due to the action of others, ie the French Air Traffic Controllers, rather than leaving passengers stranded with no recourse whatsoever against the airline and, in some cases huge bills that are no fault of their own?"

The argument that those passengers paid very little (possibly) shouldn't have anything to do with anything in my opinion. Airlines are in the Service Industry and as such should provide the service their customers have booked with them. I contend that as Ryanair are not necessarily the cheap as chips carrier they once were should mean that they, within their existing pricing structure, should provide the same level of service as other airlines.

Any thoughts or ideas anyone?

 

[Seasider]

I know quite a few people who will not book a "holiday flight" with them because if things go wrong and the flight is cancelled, you can be "up the creek" and lose your holiday (no available seats for 4/5 days). They stick to Jet2 or IT operator.

 

[Aviador]

I know quite a few people who will not book a "holiday flight" with them because if things go wrong and the flight is cancelled, you can be "up the creek" and lose your holiday (no available seats for 4/5 days). They stick to Jet2 or IT operator.

That's a good point and similarly you wouldn't think of booking with Jet2 to fly to Amsterdam when your trying to catch a connecting flight elsewhere. If you're prepared to take a risk because you think you've found a bargain that's fine otherwise Jet2 wins hands down. On the otherhand, if you have property in Spain or if you are prepared to find accommodation when you get there then Ryanair is good for that.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Ryanair have announced flights to warsaw from BRS and MAN but where is LBIA? We have a large population of polish traffic in yorkshrie which i think can be tapped into as Wizzair have proved from DSA? Is this a sign that FR are happy with the base at LBA and that they are going to go 'stale'?

Does anyone know, or possible would like to throw ideas around as to how the 3rd 737 will be used this winter something which has bugged me since the start of their summer operation? I would hazard a guess that the TFS flight is here to stay, so we could with TOM & TCX ontop of LS have 7-9 flights a week. I know this winter there was 3 flights in ONE day and still is on a friday.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Does anyone know, or possible would like to throw ideas around as to how the 3rd 737 will be used this winter something which has bugged me since the start of their summer operation?

It may not be used, at least not all the time. Ryanair tends to park up aircraft in the winter.

For example, Bristol has five based 737s which are used for most of every day in summer but only three have been required for the last two winter schedules. The others are parked up - not the same aircraft parked all the time of course as they are rotated.

 

[752]

what would the chances be on wizz moving there operations to LBA?

 

[User0001]

Seems strange LBA-WAW (Modlin) was not launched in competition for DSA-WAW with wizz, yet Ryanair have happily launched Modlin from both MAN and LPL?

 

[wawkrk]

I am also surprised that RYR has not given Wizz more of a bashing.
However, I think the Warsaw route could dilute pax numbers on other routes.
Also, I understand landing fees in Warsaw are extortionate.
The Krakow flight last Thurday had about 143 pax outbound. It was good to see more tourists onboard for a change.RYR will have hit pax numbers on the Wizz flights to Katowice for certain.

 

[User0001]

Also, I understand landing fees in Warsaw are extortionate

Dont forget, the Ryanair base is at the new Modlin airport, not Warsaw Chopin.

 

[wawkrk]

Yes thanks 001, I had forgotton that.I have never flown there but when the locos first started to operate from Chopin, the pax were treated like lepers and confined to a cattle shed. They were not allowed to use the terminal.

Class distinction is still rife. I cannot use the business lounge in Krakow when using Ryan even though I have a card. Loco pax are seperated from the posh flyers and you cannot get through to the lounge.

 

[User0001]

Does anyone know, or possible would like to throw ideas around as to how the 3rd 737 will be used this winter something which has bugged me since the start of their summer operation?

It may not be used, at least not all the time. Ryanair tends to park up aircraft in the winter.

For example, Bristol has five based 737s which are used for most of every day in summer but only three have been required for the last two winter schedules. The others are parked up - not the same aircraft parked all the time of course as they are rotated.

Depends what the contract is. The first phase of the LBA deal was that Ryanair got the landing fees they wanted in return for guaranteeing to LBA an annual passenger volume. Possibly still the same deal for the bigger base, in which case the schedule will reflect what ever FR need to do to get the volume - at the best margin for themselves of course

 

[TheLocalYokel]

That's a good point.

I don't know what the situation is at Bristol re contracts.

When the base was set up all sorts of odd routes were tried in the first year or two that never came back: Cagliari, Trieste, Toulon, Montpellier, Pau, Rimini and Eindhoven for starters.

Maybe this was to bolster passenger figures to fulfil a contract that specified minimum passenger numbers in the first year or two.

Has LBA had any routes that aren't working (at least in terms of passenger numbers) and are a surprise to have ever been tried?

For the past two years FR has stood still at Bristol in summer in terms of number of weekly rotations and cut back in the winter.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I think that the airline could/can grow to the size of operation that it has at Bristol but also sustain. I say this because i see LBIA as one of the regional powerhouses, and thus can carry that amount of capacity should that be given to it. FR operate seasonal however their seasonal is very different to everyone elses (May-September is Jet2, May-October TCX). So it gives new routes time to mature and prosper for a few months before the peak (april, may time). Personally i'd like them to use the 3rd a/c to get the pax numbers in and rolling with a fourth added and used all year next year too. But then thats from my own selfish point of view of wanting a job at the airport with servicair or jet2.

Personally i don't want FR to go stale with LBA yet and i think if we don't get a Fourth A/c and the 3rd is not utalized as much this winter then thats the way they'll go. A simple, profitable, very good operation.

 

[Jordan-34092]

I personally dont think a 4th aircraft should be brought in until 2014, sure I think they could expand more at leeds but use non based aircraft for this expansion.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[tleeds]

That's a good point.
Has LBA had any routes that aren't working (at least in terms of passenger numbers) and are a surprise to have ever been tried?

I'm not sure about the passenger numbers, but to my knowledge we have only lost four Ryanair routes, since they opened operations at LBA; Knock, Perpignan, Carcassone and Girona... the latter was swapped in favour of Barcelona El Prat operations.

 

[lbaspotter]

That's a good point.
Has LBA had any routes that aren't working (at least in terms of passenger numbers) and are a surprise to have ever been tried?

I'm not sure about the passenger numbers, but to my knowledge we have only lost four Ryanair routes, since they opened operations at LBA; Knock, Perpignan, Carcassone and Girona... the latter was swapped in favour of Barcelona El Prat operations.

We never had Perpignan route from LBA operated by Ryanair. This is what i can remember of which route Ryanair dropped

Shannon = Dropped but this was before they opened the LBA base
Gerona = Started before the base opened, After 1x summer swapped with Barcelona El Prat
Carcassone = Operated for 1x summer and 1x winter season
Knock = Operated 2x summer and 1x winter season
Nantes = Operated 2x Summers and now swapped with Dinard

 

[wawkrk]

For those who are interested, the inbound Krakow last night was fully booked.

 

[tleeds]

Thanks for that Wawrk!

Sorry about that Lbaspotter, don't know where Perpignan came from..?! :crazy: :fool:

 

[lbaspotter]

Looks like ryanair have been messing with the Saturday programme on one of the based Boeing 737-800WL aircraft. The Malaga was planned to operate in morning while the Chania-Crete was to operate in the afternoon.

But there has now been swap around been made for some reason. So the Chania-Crete services operates in the morning while the Malaga operates its usual evening slots.

WAS BEFORE CHANGE
FR2446/2447 = 07:00-13:35 – Malaga
FR2476/2477 = 14:25-22:20 – Chania (Crete)

NOW AFTER CHANGE
FR2476/2477 = 08:35-16:30 – Chania (Crete)
FR2446/2447 = 17:20-00:00 – Malaga

Also worth pointing out is the fact that the Venice-Treviso service has been dropped from the planned 3x weekly service to just 2x weekly service for the remainder of the summer season for some reason. Its the Thursday morning rotation that has been dropped which is operated by an LBA based aircraft.
So that aircraft will sit on the deck all morning now unless they plan to add something else.