Air Traffic, ILS & Navigation Aids

[oldendays]

NOTAM advising no radar service available from 10.30 tonight until 6.00 tomorrow morning.

 

[lbaspotter]

Oh dear. The UK CAA have declined the Leeds Bradford airspace change proposals due to "inadequacies in the consultation process"

For more info see following PDF link.
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP1805 Leeds Bradford ACP Decision(web).pdf

 

[White Heather]

Not good. I am sure that the situation wouldn't have been helped by the changes in responsible staff during this process, which must surely have affected continuity. Looks very much like LBA will have to go back and start over on this one to tick all the CAA boxes. Anyone know if this was just LBA or have the CAA thrown out other airport's submissions too? As far as I am aware, all airports are going through this process.

 

[airforced]

I might be being a little thick here but after having read the CAA report I am none the wiser. What exactly have LBA done wrong?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I might be being a little thick here but after having read the CAA report I am none the wiser. What exactly have LBA done wrong?

It seems the CAA is not satisfied that the consultation process was carried out in a proper manner, specifically:

The justifications for the changes were presented ambiguously and were difficult to comprehend.

The operators and owners of all classes of aircraft who participated in the consultation did not have their concerns, which were raised in the consultation process, conscientiously considered and mitigated adequately.

Consultations should be informative and provide enough information for those participating to understand the issues. The diagrams presented in some of the submitted documents do not accurately portray the impact of the change to the communities involved.

 

[Bigman]

Sounds like another good old ***Please Read Forum Terms of Service***-up!! Top effort!!!

 

[Bhowani]

If it's public consultation that is supposed to be "inadequate" then I don't follow the reasoning. There were 2 very well attended meetings in Menston where the airport rep battled the usual baracking from resident folks, and presented the proposals
properly and in plain language. If it a problem with other officual bodies, others may care to comment! Long live LBA - and I DO use it!

Bhowani

 

[a300boy]

A local Aero Club were not happy they had been consulted properly but I have no idea what the outcome was.

 

[Len Fish]

This wouldn’t happen if LBA was in China!

 

[Peter Barber]

The Luddites are alive and well in Yorkshire.

 

[oldendays]

LBA had a Plessey ACR430 radar from about 1972 to about 1994. It ran concurrently with the Watchman for about the last four years of its LBA life. Does anyone know what became of it ? I'm hoping it was refurbished and sold on to a smaller airport somewhere in the world or at least found a home in a museum.

Thankyou.

 

[Aviador]

haha I remember it well and I have often also wondered what happened to it.

 

[White Heather]

In todays Telegraph.......


FLIGHT paths across Britain are to be redrawn for the first time in 60 years as the Government warns that growing congestion in the skies will add half an hour to journey times in the next decade if nothing is done.
The planned overhaul of routes will reduce noise for people living near airports by allowing planes to take off and land more steeply, the Department for Transport (DfT) said.

Well this is what LBA tried to implement early last year but their proposals to do exactly this were rejected because they alleged that LBA had not followed the latest guidance on public consultation - despite the fact that LBA had been in constant contact with them over the process they were required to follow. It seemed to be a case of being mislead by Government who then threw out the proposals that arose out of following their guidance. No doubt it will come back on LBAs agenda in the future, but for now they have bigger issues on their mind at ground level.

 

[oldendays]

LBA Radio Frequencies.

When I began airband listening about forty years ago, the local frequencies were, if my memory serves me correctly;

Tower/Approach combined - 123.75
Radar - 121.75

120.3 was allocated as a Tower frequency but didn't start being used until about 1985. At this point, 123.75 became purely Approach.

Radar was changed from 121.75 to 121.05 in about 1982.

The ATIS, on 118.025, came along in about 1991.

Have I got this right ? I'd be interested to know if there had been any other changes or allocations prior to 1980.

Thankyou.

 

[Aviador]

Sounds right so far as my memory goes.

 

[oldendays]

Radio reception was, for me at least, very high quality until the two Radar frequencies were changed a few years ago. The ground plane transmitting antennas on the control tower roof were replaced with a different design at the same time. Since then, reception quality on these frequencies hasn't been nearly as good. Tower on 120.305 is noticeably stronger, which is daft as it transmits on lower power than the two Radar frequencies.

 

[Dave 1959]

Radio reception was, for me at least, very high quality until the two Radar frequencies were changed a few years ago. The ground plane transmitting antennas on the control tower roof were replaced with a different design at the same time. Since then, reception quality on these frequencies hasn't been nearly as good. Tower on 120.305 is noticeably stronger, which is daft as it transmits on lower power than the two Radar frequencies.

Yes that's exactly my experience too, quite muffled on the radar frequencies.

 

[oldendays]

I suppose unless ATC receive multiple pilot reports about reception problems, nothing will change.

 

[radar]

Correct. As far as I’m aware, there is no RT quality issue for aircraft.

 

[oldendays]

An aircraft radio receiver with line of sight to the transmitter will (should) always have better reception than a receiver in a built-up area connected to a loft antenna ! Any shortcomings the likes of me notice are less likely to be noticed by pilots. I won't be bothering Tels just yet.