KLM

[Len Fish]

Since Hop are part of Air France who in turn are part of the KLM/Air France Group, if Hop have the capacity it would make sense to keep any leasing agreement in house plus it could well be an easier sell to the Unions if they’re kicking up a fuss about the use of third party wet leases.

 

[Starflyer]

There's a bit of everything. The three Hop! 190s will directly replace three wet-lease aircraft, and KLM's updated pilot overtime agreement enables them to increase capacity across the fleet. It's also going into the winter which is quieter than the summer. Add all that together and that's the solution.

Eastern is now saddled with four E190s with no work for them. That's a very big commitment. And worse still, their main European rival in the ACMI market is German Airways which is also getting a load of aircraft back from KLM and will be competing aggressively for any work to be had (of which I don't think there's a lot to begin with).

 

[White Heather]

There's a bit of everything. The three Hop! 190s will directly replace three wet-lease aircraft, and KLM's updated pilot overtime agreement enables them to increase capacity across the fleet. It's also going into the winter which is quieter than the summer. Add all that together and that's the solution.

Eastern is now saddled with four E190s with no work for them. That's a very big commitment. And worse still, their main European rival in the ACMI market is German Airways which is also getting a load of aircraft back from KLM and will be competing aggressively for any work to be had (of which I don't think there's a lot to begin with).

There's a few routes out of LBA that Eastern could operate on an E190 if the two parties bury the hatchet. If only they could sort their reliability issues out and present as a proper airline that passengers (and airports) can trust.

This union agreement was several weeks ago. I referred to it in my post on 16th August .

 

[pug]

There's a bit of everything. The three Hop! 190s will directly replace three wet-lease aircraft, and KLM's updated pilot overtime agreement enables them to increase capacity across the fleet. It's also going into the winter which is quieter than the summer. Add all that together and that's the solution.

Eastern is now saddled with four E190s with no work for them. That's a very big commitment. And worse still, their main European rival in the ACMI market is German Airways which is also getting a load of aircraft back from KLM and will be competing aggressively for any work to be had (of which I don't think there's a lot to begin with).

Well I have to say I bow to your clear knowledge on this matter. However I am deeply concerned for at least two people I know who will not be sleeping easy tonight given the perilous position this will put them in. I’ve not had contact with my more uh the know eastern person for some time so I’m trying to establish whether the contract ends October 26th this year or October 2026. I assume it’ll be this year when it ends. There will be job losses resulting from this because there is no conceivable way Eastern can keep that number of E-Jets busy.

I know I’m scathing of DSA. I never like to see job losses regardless of industry. But getting a break into flying commercially can be exceptionally tough for new entrants who have just forked out the equivalent of a small mortgage to achieve their dream. I maintain that eastern have been a well trodden (and well respected in terms of the quality they produce) path for those wanting their break into the industry. Airport staff can simply move on, low hour pilots cannot. There will be a fair few flight crew with 200 hours on a type that not many airlines in the U.K. use and not much hope of progressing onto something else. Truly heartbreaking,

I’ve been fortunate but the struggle for me was very real and lengthy. This could quite easily have been me in those position. I just hope RL manages to find something else to at least buy them some time, but age isn’t on his side and I feel he won’t be far off wrapping it up.

@White Heather it would appear that reliability issues were not a factor in this decision, they certainly weren’t performing any worse than KLC on the more established routes. However bridges get burned and the known commodity of KLMs services meant they commanded a high per sector price. This isn’t something that the airline you allude to would be prepared to pay for a route that doesn’t currently operate sadly. I do think eastern might keep hold of a couple of E-jets as they come in handy for charters, and I understand cost £0 when sitting idle. Hopefully some of the more experienced crew will leave to the bigger airlines meaning those without enough hours to move on are kept in a form of gainful employment until such time that they too can move on to bigger better and more certain futures.

Will be a sad day when Eastern close for good.

 

[Starflyer]

It's 26 October 2025 when the agreement wraps up. I understand that it's not totally done and dusted yet but the messaging coming out of KLM is "no Eastern this winter" (and no German Airways too).

That comes at the same time as they're facing an ATR fleet with little or no work too, and those aircraft are not cheap to park up.

 

[pug]

It's 26 October 2025 when the agreement wraps up. I understand that it's not totally done and dusted yet but the messaging coming out of KLM is "no Eastern this winter" (and no German Airways too).

That comes at the same time as they're facing an ATR fleet with little or no work too, and those aircraft are not cheap to park up.

The ATR, I’m told, was sold as the future of the airline before Bristow relinquished their shares in Eastern. I think they’ll still employ their J41’s on the offshore contracts they somehow maintain, and they’ll certainly have some use for a couple of jets given their charters contracts, but they’ll not get another opportunity the like of which KLM offered. Knowing RL there will probably be a hefty early break clause that will inject some more cash into the coffers. However how long can they continue in that guise? The regional U.K. market is dead, there is no demand for point to point U.K. services any more. The coastguard contract went to 2Excel. The NQY PSO is probably going to go to an operator more suited to that market. By all accounts the commercial director is about as useful as a football bat (and has vocally supported the reopening of DSA! Wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up there somehow). So I honestly don’t see a good outcome of this at all. However I maintain my position, the industry needs airlines like Eastern in this post Brexit world where the experience they provide is vital in the flight crew supply chain. Otherwise airlines might need to do a bit of soul searching!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Well I have to say I bow to your clear knowledge on this matter. However I am deeply concerned for at least two people I know who will not be sleeping easy tonight given the perilous position this will put them in. I’ve not had contact with my more uh the know eastern person for some time so I’m trying to establish whether the contract ends October 26th this year or October 2026. I assume it’ll be this year when it ends. There will be job losses resulting from this because there is no conceivable way Eastern can keep that number of E-Jets busy.

I know I’m scathing of DSA. I never like to see job losses regardless of industry. But getting a break into flying commercially can be exceptionally tough for new entrants who have just forked out the equivalent of a small mortgage to achieve their dream. I maintain that eastern have been a well trodden (and well respected in terms of the quality they produce) path for those wanting their break into the industry. Airport staff can simply move on, low hour pilots cannot. There will be a fair few flight crew with 200 hours on a type that not many airlines in the U.K. use and not much hope of progressing onto something else. Truly heartbreaking,

I’ve been fortunate but the struggle for me was very real and lengthy. This could quite easily have been me in those position. I just hope RL manages to find something else to at least buy them some time, but age isn’t on his side and I feel he won’t be far off wrapping it up.

@White Heather it would appear that reliability issues were not a factor in this decision, they certainly weren’t performing any worse than KLC on the more established routes. However bridges get burned and the known commodity of KLMs services meant they commanded a high per sector price. This isn’t something that the airline you allude to would be prepared to pay for a route that doesn’t currently operate sadly. I do think eastern might keep hold of a couple of E-jets as they come in handy for charters, and I understand cost £0 when sitting idle. Hopefully some of the more experienced crew will leave to the bigger airlines meaning those without enough hours to move on are kept in a form of gainful employment until such time that they too can move on to bigger better and more certain futures.

Will be a sad day when Eastern close for good.

If Eastern agreed a contract that gave KLM an easy 'get out' then it was a bad business decision, and I dont think they would have been that naive.

Maybe theres a substantial payment coming their way from KLM for early termination, or KLM could compensate them some other way such as gifting them the aircraft they received from them.

 

[pug]

If Eastern agreed a contract that gave KLM an easy 'get out' then it was a bad business decision, and I dont think they would have been that naive.

Maybe theres a substantial payment coming their way from KLM for early termination, or KLM could compensate them some other way such as gifting them the aircraft they received from them.

Well the Type Rating bills alone won’t come cheap, they’ve been recruiting like mad for the last 18 months. One thing that does bring comfort is that, unlike some airlines that really should know better (and have a very solid balance sheet) Eastern bonded a type rating with a return of service of 3 years. This was a reducing bond that was on face value much cheaper than one I was offered (and rejected) on an aircraft type that was much smaller and not whittle powered! So I suppose the only thing people will be losing is jobs, and not a big debt to their previous employers!

I think you’re right though. The contract was up until 2030, there will be a payout of sorts I have no doubt and that will probably see them through for a while at least. Just don’t expect new routes, that is my opinion.

 

[EX9]

Why?

It had a heavy landing the night before and so the morning aircraft brought an engineer to look at it.

 

[Finger66]

Is there any opportunity for T3 E-jet pilots to actually work for KLM themselves or is that going to require them to relocate to NL? Something of course they may want to do. And whilst I am no T3 fan after what happened previously at LBA I totally agree with @pug that we don't want to be seeing anyone lose jobs so I hope for their sake continued or alternative employment occurs.
This situation probably adds weight to why one of their E170s looks to now be stored at EXT I believe it is so that charter work is perhaps utilised more by E190s

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Is there any opportunity for T3 E-jet pilots to actually work for KLM themselves or is that going to require them to relocate to NL? Something of course they may want to do. And whilst I am no T3 fan after what happened previously at LBA I totally agree with @pug that we don't want to be seeing anyone lose jobs so I hope for their sake continued or alternative employment occurs.
This situation probably adds weight to why one of their E170s looks to now be stored at EXT I believe it is so that charter work is perhaps utilised more by E190s

Im sure there was a requirement for all KLM pilots to speak Dutch. This may have been lifted as they now use AF flight deck crews on some flights, does anyone know?

 

[pug]

Is there any opportunity for T3 E-jet pilots to actually work for KLM themselves or is that going to require them to relocate to NL? Something of course they may want to do. And whilst I am no T3 fan after what happened previously at LBA I totally agree with @pug that we don't want to be seeing anyone lose jobs so I hope for their sake continued or alternative employment occurs.
This situation probably adds weight to why one of their E170s looks to now be stored at EXT I believe it is so that charter work is perhaps utilised more by E190s

No. Unfortunately the Boris Government, in their infinite wisdom and with nothing but contempt with anything even remotely linked to the ECJ, decided it would be a good idea to drag us out of EASA. Due to this anyone who wants to fly aircraft on the G-Reg and people who want to repair them have to now hold a U.K. CAA issued licence. Similarly for anyone who wants to fly or fix an aircraft registers in an EASA member state they must have a licence also issued by an EASA state. This was great for the U.K. passport holders who now have to pay DOUBLE to get an EASA licence if they want any chance of getting a job at Ryanair who are I believe one of the biggest pilot employers in the U.K. So no there will be very little scope for those pilots to move on to an airline on the continent that operates E-jets.

I can understand people’s annoyance with T3 given previous falling out with LBA, but they’re a company who have been struggling to find something to keep them going amidst their core market being completely obliterated. Could they do things better? Absolutely and we all know that a lot of the chaos is a result of decisions from the person at the top. However if that means they survive and continue to act as that stepping stone then I fully support them.

 

[lbaspotter]

It looks like KLM are terminating the Eastern Airways contract 3 weeks earlier than planned with there last operated flight into Leeds on October 5th instead of the October 25th.

 

[lbaspotter]

KLM City Hopper has revised its Winter 2025/2026 schedule for its Leeds Bradford – Amsterdam route operating up to 4x daily (25x weekly). KLM will be operating all its own Metal using a mix of Embraer 175, Embraer 190 and the newer larger Embraer 195-E2’s will be making several appearances each week.


E175 = Embraer 175
E190 = Embraer 190
E290 = Embraer 195-E2

Mondays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E190
KLM1021 = AMS 12:10 – LBA 12:20 / KLM0122 = LBA 12:50 – AMS 15:05 – E175 Non Op 05/01-09/02
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E290
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190

Tuesdays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E190
KLM1021 = AMS 12:10 – LBA 12:20 / KLM0122 = LBA 12:50 – AMS 15:05 – E175 Non Op 06/01-10/02
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E290
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190

Wednesdays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E190
KLM1021 = AMS 12:10 – LBA 12:20 / KLM0122 = LBA 12:50 – AMS 15:05 – E190 Non Op 07/01-11/02
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E190
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190 Non Op 24/12

Thursdays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190 Non Op 25/12
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E190 Non Op 25/12
KLM1021 = AMS 12:10 – LBA 12:20 / KLM0122 = LBA 12:50 – AMS 15:05 = E175 Non Op 25/12 & 08/01-12/02
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E190 Non Op 25/12
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190 Non Op 25/12

Fridays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190 Non Op 26/12
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E190
KLM1021 = AMS 13:35 – LBA 13:45 / KLM0122 = LBA 14:15 – AMS 16:30 – E175 Non Op 09/01-13/02
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E190
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190

Saturdays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:05 - AMS 12:15 = E290
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190

Sundays
--------------------------------------- / KLM1018 = LBA 06:10 - AMS 08:25 = E190
KLM1019 = AMS 09:25 - LBA 09:30 / KLM1020 = LBA 10:00 - AMS 12:15 = E175
KLM1023 = AMS 16:35 - LBA 16:45 / KLM1024 = LBA 17:20 - AMS 19:35 = E190
KLM1025 = AMS 21:45 - LBA 21:55 / ----------------- N/S ---------------- = E190

 

[lbaspotter]

Unceremoniously today was the last day of Eastern Airways operations on KLM’s Leeds/Bradford - Amsterdam route, With Embraer 190, G-CMZI having the final honours this morning

Good look to everyone at Eastern Airways for the future, We all know it’s not the crews fault this contract has gone the way it has.