Aviation Nostalgia Thread

[LBA4EVER]

Seriously an airline like eastern should have their main base at LBA (preferably with a new terminal) with a whole range of european city and uk regional routes, bit like capital but more extensive. The city of leeds and west yorkshire is crying out for something like this and it would be a gold mine for that airline.

 

[Finger66]

Indeed they have. Mooted by LBAspotter that they were going on BHD twice daily. But that may now be on hold with BACF and U2 flying to Belfast so we shall see. Also WH mentioned a comment from VH from the last ACC meeting with a general comment stating hopeful T3 expansion

 

[lbaspotter]

35 years ago today this happened

 

[Seasider]

What a memory! I was on the corner of the Golf Course, it was packed. I actually thought that it would not land because of the wind. Glad to be proved wrong.

 

[lbaspotter]

Me model Capital Airlines BAe 146-200, G-OSKI arrived by UPS delivery this morning, so here's a couple more photo's for you to see her.

 

[CM.]

What Eastern expansion rumours ? have they been aired on this forum ?

I believe there been a lot of talk about eastern expanding operations from LBA possibly looking at Belfast City. Have a look on the “eastern Leeds Bradford thread” as there’s been lots of discussion on this. But for now it’s just rumours. Hope that helps @a300boy

 

[twevsmiff]

Wasn't sure which thread to put it in but this has just appeared on you tube

 

[Easy289]

I was always of the opinion that a late touchdown in combination with aquaplaning, was the cause. The above seems to suggest pilot orientated issues. Very interesting.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I like the Allec Joshua Ibay reconstructions of aviation events. Possibly simplified too much for some people but if aimed at an audience of non-technical people and the general public I find them very useful and informative.

I too thought that aquaplaning was a main contributor. Around that time an Iberia A300 aquaplaned on landing at Bristol Airport and came to rest down a steep slope at the end of the runway. There were no serious injuries as far as I can recall. Yet another of the many things that LBA and BRS have in common.

 

[Len Fish]

I was always of the opinion that a late touchdown in combination with aquaplaning, was the cause. The above seems to suggest pilot orientated issues. Very interesting.

“The accident report concluded that the overrun was caused by the inability of the aircraft to achieve the appropriate level of braking effectiveness due to restricted thrust reverse options and recommended that both the scheduled wet runway performance of the TriStar and the condition of the surface of runway 14 at Leeds Bradford Airport should be re-examined.”
The AAIB report confirms that the aircraft touched down on the runway within the required limits, that the Captain’s braking actions were in accordance with BA’s published procedures and that there was little he could have done differently that would have prevented the accident.

 

[White Heather]

“The accident report concluded that the overrun was caused by the inability of the aircraft to achieve the appropriate level of braking effectiveness due to restricted thrust reverse options and recommended that both the scheduled wet runway performance of the TriStar and the condition of the surface of runway 14 at Leeds Bradford Airport should be re-examined.”
The AAIB report confirms that the aircraft touched down on the runway within the required limits, that the Captain’s braking actions were in accordance with BA’s published procedures and that there was little he could have done differently that would have prevented the accident.

And there were some I knew at the time working in aviation who concluded that was a whitewash. Photos showed the aircraft touch down in front of the terminal and not get it's nosewheel down until it was well down the runway. That might have been considered less than ideal on a short, wet runway with a large wide body jet.
It's all consigned to history now. I suspect that the cause was a combination of factors but from the photos and videos available, the aircraft could have done with touching down earlier in those conditions.

 

[GolfFox]

Agree White Heather. I was 'saddling up' on the 'Yorkshire Light' apron when it came in. I was surprised at the approach speed and how late it touched down and said to one of my passengers that it would have to go around! Whilst a wet runway will nearly always have some detrimental effect on braking action, that guy would never have stopped on a bone dry runway coated with super glue!! Why he didn't go around I will never know. Surprised also that the animator stated that the aircraft landed with sufficient stopping distance available. Main wheels or nosewheel - nosewheel was still up as it disappeared around the corner of the Yorkshire Light hangar???? As you say consigned to history but a whitewash for some reason - although I can't imagine why! Ironically I was in Flight Planning when the TriStar was re-introduced to the service and landed in half the available length of 33 (as it was then) after brushes were dispatched to sweep damp patches on the runway to the amusement of the BA crew who were also checking their route forecast!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Agree White Heather. I was 'saddling up' on the 'Yorkshire Light' apron when it came in. I was surprised at the approach speed and how late it touched down and said to one of my passengers that it would have to go around! Whilst a wet runway will nearly always have some detrimental effect on braking action, that guy would never have stopped on a bone dry runway coated with super glue!! Why he didn't go around I will never know. Surprised also that the animator stated that the aircraft landed with sufficient stopping distance available. Main wheels or nosewheel - nosewheel was still up as it disappeared around the corner of the Yorkshire Light hangar???? As you say consigned to history but a whitewash for some reason - although I can't imagine why! Ironically I was in Flight Planning when the TriStar was re-introduced to the service and landed in half the available length of 33 (as it was then) after brushes were dispatched to sweep damp patches on the runway to the amusement of the BA crew who were also checking their route forecast!

Due to the up slope of runway 14 which then levels off towards the end of runway 14 at first its difficult to see the end of the runway, so perhaps the pilots thought they had more runway length available? Did the L1011s have the runway length remaining announcements in the cockpit back then or is this a relatively new thing?

 

[Easy289]

They would be (or certainly should have been) well aware of the LDA on RW14 irrespective of the visual of the tarmac ahead. The touchdown point is there for a reason!

 

[LBA4EVER]

They would be (or certainly should have been) well aware of the LDA on RW14 irrespective of the visual of the tarmac ahead. The touchdown point is there for a reason!

This is the issue though with shorter runways, when your landing a wide body thats still heavy you gotta hit the touchdown zone or else! I was also told that he still had alot of fuel onboard increasing the weight as it was lower priced in spain, not sure is this was true though?

 

[Len Fish]

I’m not convinced the AAIB would whitewash their report. It seems the crew relied on the published information regarding the stopping distance required at LBA for the configuration of the aircraft in the prevailing landing conditions and determined it was safe to land. From what others have said the actual landing was right on the edge of the allowable parameters which in this instance, for whatever reason, provided an insufficient landing distance contrary to what had been computed and expected. Perhaps a more prudent pilot would in similar circumstances have gone around.

 

[LBA4EVER]

I’m not convinced the AAIB would whitewash their report. It seems the crew relied on the published information regarding the stopping distance required at LBA for the configuration of the aircraft in the prevailing landing conditions and determined it was safe to land. From what others have said the actual landing was right on the edge of the allowable parameters which in this instance, for whatever reason, provided an insufficient landing distance contrary to what had been computed and expected. Perhaps a more prudent pilot would in similar circumstances have gone around.

Like i have mentioned though on shorter runways if you touchdown just 100 to 200metres past the touchdown zone in a widebody thats heavy your basically done for!!
This is just the reason many widebody operators wont touch LBA although like we have discussed long haul operations into LBA would land lighter,
But an L1011 with 400pax and extra fuel onboard which is what i was told they had onboard is asking for it!!

 

[White Heather]

Like i have mentioned though on shorter runways if you touchdown just 100 to 200metres past the touchdown zone in a widebody thats heavy your basically done for!!
This is just the reason many widebody operators wont touch LBA although like we have discussed long haul operations into LBA would land lighter,
But an L1011 with 400pax and extra fuel onboard which is what i was told they had onboard is asking for it!!

It's worth remembering we had numerous Tristars land at LBA, with British Airtours, Worldways Canada, Air Transat, Air Ops, and others, some of which were in far worse conditions.
Having seen photos taken of this particular landing there is no doubt that if it landed within limits, it was very close to not being within them, and was slow to get it's nosewheel down (& reverse thrust applied). I doubt very much that any other TriStar landed as far down the runway as this one and if it was a heavy load (we know it had 400 ish pax), then common sense suggests that landing further up the touch down area and getting reverse thrust applied far sooner would have been preferable.
I was told that in the tower, the alarm was sounded almost as soon as it landed, as it was clear to them it wasn't going to end well, although that is if course hearsay - from another ex LBA employee.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I noticed this on YouTube today, Leo Valentin, Bird Man, filmed at Yeadon in 1955. No sound.

 

[Bigman]

So is that what Eastern are getting to replace their Jetstreams?